OFFICIAL Make America Healthy Again Game Thread - Featuring Dr Anthony Chaffee

[BleachedAnusDawg]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

 

[DerekJohnson]

BTW, I respectfully suggest we move this to the Tug. You can’t separate a lot of this policy talk from politics at this point.
Make The Shoppe About Music Again!

@DerekJohnson suggested placing it here originally if I recall correctly.

Originally I placed it in the Tug, and you said you wouldn't mind hosting it as long as it didn't get too Tug-related. So I moved it into the Shoppe.

 

[Doog_de_Jour]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

 

[YellowSnow]

BTW, I respectfully suggest we move this to the Tug. You can’t separate a lot of this policy talk from politics at this point.
Make The Shoppe About Music Again!

@DerekJohnson suggested placing it here originally if I recall correctly.

Originally I placed it in the Tug, and you said you wouldn't mind hosting it as long as it didn't get too Tug-related. So I moved it into the Shoppe.

I didn’t have an issue with it. A couple of folks in this thread had mentioned that it’s the type of thread where finding the right home is tricky.

 

[BleachedAnusDawg]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

People are already abusing Ozempic and doing dangerous crash diets.
It would be pretty easy to tell people "get on a path and hit milestones on weight or your rates will go up." Maybe that's tough love, but what's being done now doesn't work, period. Doctors just stick people on endless prescriptions so that they can continue to live as fat slobs without making significant changes to what is causing their poor health. Car insurance insurance is rated based off of track record (eg making poor decisions that increase your risk as a driver to cause significant financial harm, etc). Why should health care not be the same (for controllable issues)?

 

[PurpleThrobber]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

People are already abusing Ozempic and doing dangerous crash diets.
It would be pretty easy to tell people "get on a path and hit milestones on weight or your rates will go up." Maybe that's tough love, but what's being done now doesn't work, period. Doctors just stick people on endless prescriptions so that they can continue to live as fat slobs without making significant changes to what is causing their poor health. Car insurance insurance is rated based off of track record (eg making poor decisions that increase your risk as a driver to cause significant financial harm, etc). Why should health care not be the same (for controllable issues)?

Ozempic is the latest card trick from big Pharma to pump up earnings

 

[RaceBannon]

Health insurance is truly another subject because it is so heavily regulated and has all sorts of must covers
It has nothing in common with a real insurance pool
Obamacare didn't change Healthcare it changed insurance
Not for the better

 

[YellowSnow]

In ancient times the wealthy were the fat ones since the peasants all starved. Race was there.
I too observe that people look much less healthy when I leave the suburban bubble. The suburban bubble isn't perfect but it is ahead of the game.

What's funny though is that our local White Wakanda Safeway has all the shit, poisoned food just like a Safeway in Salem would have. And yet obesity is non existent among the client base? Why is that?

 

[YellowSnow]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

People are already abusing Ozempic and doing dangerous crash diets.
It would be pretty easy to tell people "get on a path and hit milestones on weight or your rates will go up." Maybe that's tough love, but what's being done now doesn't work, period. Doctors just stick people on endless prescriptions so that they can continue to live as fat slobs without making significant changes to what is causing their poor health. Car insurance insurance is rated based off of track record (eg making poor decisions that increase your risk as a driver to cause significant financial harm, etc). Why should health care not be the same (for controllable issues)?

We already factor in higher risk factors into other markets- e.g., credit scores, auto/life/home insurance, etc.
There's no question that obesity and Type II diabetes are costing the US economy billions (maybe over a trillion) per year.
I just don't know the solution of how to use government carrots and stick vis-a-vis obesity.

 

[whlinder]

In ancient times the wealthy were the fat ones since the peasants all starved. Race was there.
I too observe that people look much less healthy when I leave the suburban bubble. The suburban bubble isn't perfect but it is ahead of the game.

What's funny though is that our local White Wakanda Safeway has all the shit, poisoned food just like a Safeway in Salem would have. And yet obesity is non existent among the client base? Why is that?

Time to petition for the tagline of this board to be "Being poor isn't an excuse"

 

[Doog_de_Jour]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

People are already abusing Ozempic and doing dangerous crash diets.
It would be pretty easy to tell people "get on a path and hit milestones on weight or your rates will go up." Maybe that's tough love, but what's being done now doesn't work, period. Doctors just stick people on endless prescriptions so that they can continue to live as fat slobs without making significant changes to what is causing their poor health. Car insurance insurance is rated based off of track record (eg making poor decisions that increase your risk as a driver to cause significant financial harm, etc). Why should health care not be the same (for controllable issues)?

I’m concerned that approach might just lead to more uninsured people if they can’t hit these milestones. But it might be worth a shot, because as you say, what society is doing now isn’t working.
And compliance/cutting off coverage isn’t unheard of - sleep apnea patients have breathing devices with tracking to make sure they’re being used, for example.
But as I said before, in order for that to have any shot of long term success, you need to give people support or at least something to kickstart them. Drug addicts get to go rehab - that’s covered by insurance usually, but is their something comparable for obese patients?

 

[Doog_de_Jour]

In ancient times the wealthy were the fat ones since the peasants all starved. Race was there.
I too observe that people look much less healthy when I leave the suburban bubble. The suburban bubble isn't perfect but it is ahead of the game.

What's funny though is that our local White Wakanda Safeway has all the shit, poisoned food just like a Safeway in Salem would have. And yet obesity is non existent among the client base? Why is that?

Time to petition for the tagline of this board to be "Being poor isn't an excuse"

You could also have it be “I won the genetic lottery!” - there are lots skinny people who eat some garbage food and look great. Hell, my grandfather ate super rich food, drank like a fish and smoked and didn’t have any weight issues until he was in his seventies. And at that point he was all IDGAF.
Converse is of course true. Some people are living in perpetual severe caloric deficits and the scale won’t budge - see Oprah Winfrey. She’s rich as fuck and has a long history of struggling with weight.

 

[whlinder]

In ancient times the wealthy were the fat ones since the peasants all starved. Race was there.
I too observe that people look much less healthy when I leave the suburban bubble. The suburban bubble isn't perfect but it is ahead of the game.

What's funny though is that our local White Wakanda Safeway has all the shit, poisoned food just like a Safeway in Salem would have. And yet obesity is non existent among the client base? Why is that?

Time to petition for the tagline of this board to be "Being poor isn't an excuse"

You could also have it be “I won the genetic lottery!” - there are lots skinny people who eat some garbage food and look great. Hell, my grandfather ate super rich food, drank like a fish and smoked and didn’t have any weight issues until he was in his seventies. And at that point he was all IDGAF.
Converse is of course true. Some people are living in perpetual severe caloric deficits and the scale won’t budge - see Oprah Winfrey. She’s rich as fuck and has a long history of struggling with weight.

That's more than fair, and true.

 

[YellowSnow]

In ancient times the wealthy were the fat ones since the peasants all starved. Race was there.
I too observe that people look much less healthy when I leave the suburban bubble. The suburban bubble isn't perfect but it is ahead of the game.

What's funny though is that our local White Wakanda Safeway has all the shit, poisoned food just like a Safeway in Salem would have. And yet obesity is non existent among the client base? Why is that?

Time to petition for the tagline of this board to be "Being poor isn't an excuse"

You could also have it be “I won the genetic lottery!” - there are lots skinny people who eat some garbage food and look great. Hell, my grandfather ate super rich food, drank like a fish and smoked and didn’t have any weight issues until he was in his seventies. And at that point he was all IDGAF.
Converse is of course true. Some people are living in perpetual severe caloric deficits and the scale won’t budge - see Oprah Winfrey. She’s rich as fuck and has a long history of struggling with weight.

There's no doubt that humans vary metabolically with regards to how easy it is to lose or gain weight and I can't begin to make sense of it.
I definitely won the genetic lottery here, except for my pencil arms that you've made fun of to my face!
If I cut out beer for month during ski season (burns lots of calories) I could drop 5 or 10 lbs like that.
That said, it's still my understanding is that if you're in severe caloric deficit (say 1000 cal per day) over an extended period eventually pounds will come off. It's just that such an experience is miserable. Who wants to feel like they are starving to death in a gulag in Siberia every day?

 

[dirtysouwfdawg]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

if we’re bashing abusing drugs, I’m out of here.

 

[Doog_de_Jour]

I apologize for arm shaming you, @YellowSnow.

I don’t know enough about human physiology, but I think I read somewhere that if you were athletic/fit in your youth it helps a lot if you later on want to get back into shape.

 

[pawz]

#FuckVanilla @YellowSnow @Doog_de_Jour

That said, it's still my understanding is that if you're in severe caloric deficit (say 1000 cal per day) over an extended period eventually pounds will come off. It's just that such an experience is miserable. Who wants to feel like they are starving to death in a gulag in Siberia every day?

.

This was my experience for 4 months out of last year. Culminating with a 10-day hospital stay which, incidentally, began one year ago this week.

A G-tube was installed through the top of my belly directly into my stomach to provide nourishment (sugar water). That first, then 6 months of chemo saved my life.

For the preceding 4 months, I figure I was getting on average 700 calories per day. It was difficult to get much more than liquid through my esophagus.

I lost 50 lbs. 25% of my body mass. I was starving to death.

After about a month and a half you begin to not miss food. You lose the hunger pains. In a fucked up way it became a non-issue. Inconsequential.

The whole experience is fucked up psychologically. A topic for another day.

Today I’m without the feeding tube. An endoscopy in September showed zero blockage in the esophagus. I can swallow normally again. I’m hyper-aware of every swallow still.

.

 

[pawz]

Health insurance should be rated on obesity rather than age. That would make people get their fat asses in shape pretty damn quickly.

I’ve often seen this take on this site and it’s a problematic one.
On one hand, I understand it. Obesity is one of the biggest contributors to other health conditions, and thus higher costs of care. But this isn’t like an insurance client picking an expensive red sports car or even smoking.

My concern is if you start doing that, without also giving people adequate resources to get healthy, you might have a ton of unintended consequences like people taking apart of dangerous crash diets or abusing drugs like Ozempic.

if we’re bashing abusing drugs, I’m out of here.

The use of psychedelics for mental health, and the use of TRT for physiological health will be allowable discussion topics.

The acquisition thereto, will not.

@DerekJohnson

 

[pawz]

Fucking Vanilla…

Yella said - Nail on the head @Doog_de_Jour The affluent communities are generally living healthy lifestyles. How do you democratize that?

That’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? Rich people are always gonna have better shit, be it healthcare, schools, cars, college football programs, etc.
Things have been tried…
Food stamps/vouchers/WIC - I have no idea about the current effectiveness of those systems. When I was unemployed/broke, Uncle Sam always told me to fuck off - I apparently didn’t qualify at that point, which baffled me. I know they’ve tried to make it less prone to abuse (as a kid of the 90s many a political figure would scream, THEY’RE BUYING BOOZE WITH IT!)
Education - another dead end. How many variations of the food pyramid have we seen? Nutrition and Home Economics are non existent in most schools. We all gotta learn to code!
Labeling - Some improvements have been made. Consumers at least have a better idea of what they’re about to put in their mouth - even if it’s garbage.

RFK Jr. isn’t wrong in trying to take down a lot of this stuff. But as we all know, laws are useless unless they’re enforced. And who will make sure the food and beverage companies are compliant?

To the point of different health outcomes vis-a-vis socioeconomic back drop, I wonder how @BearsWiin accounts for the real soccer mom’s of Marin County enjoying the only declining rate of autism in the country.

RFK wants to know.

The part the media intentionally ignores is that he is actually agnostic on which variable(s) may come to fore. His only concern is to know which ones to do something about.

#MAHA

.

 

[pawz]

#FuckVanilla @Doog_de_Jour @PurpleThrobber

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I don’t know the specifics to the riddle, but what Throbber is saying about Big Tobacco buying into Big Food is true. A natural fit in many ways coming from Big Agra.

You are not wrong about the biggest names currently in Big Food. My only suggestion is to make sure you aren’t being hood-winked by nomenclature.

When Chase Bank purchased JP Morgan, the new name was JP Morgan Chase. From a business perspective, Big Tabacco had multiple reasons to abscond any and all brand identities and/or relationships with the past.

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