Why does Jordan get a pass for '95?

[dnc]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.

Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.

If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.

 

[RoadDawg55]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.

Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.

If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.

I knew you would disagree. Griffin has actually developed his game. Kemp had a decent mid range jumper, but he didn't have the skill Griffin does.

 

[Doogles]

Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.

God I miss 90's basketball shoes.

 

[RaceBannon]

In 96 Kemp had just outplayed Malone in the conference finals

 

[dnc]

Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.

God I miss 90's basketball shoes.

Greatest non Jordans ever

 

[allpurpleallgold]

Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.

God I miss 90's basketball shoes.

Greatest non Jordans ever

Disagree.

 

[dnc]

Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.

God I miss 90's basketball shoes.

Greatest non Jordans ever

Disagree.

YRYK

Don't know how I forgot the Penny's. I loved the Kidds from like 96 too.

Still, the Kamikaze's are in the discussion. Definitely the best non-Nike shoe, although the Pumps had the best non-Nike shoe moment.

 

[Shane]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

Emphasis on not.

The Pistons broke up once they lost to the Bulls. The Knicks were the Knicks. The rest of the east was non existent. The NBA has always been top heavy. It's like none of you actually watch basketball.

A 4 year old in 1991 is telling me about Jordan

Your basketball analysis consists of, "LeBron's gonna win because I really want him to."

Or.. he wins

Lebron beat the Spurs. A better team than any one that Jordan faced

Easy does it with the triple posts, PLSS

Look Freme while you and Shane play grab ass I'm going 1 on 4 and winning

FREE PUB!!!

Sorry old man you got the HIV in this thread.

 

[dnc]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.

Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.

If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.

I knew you would disagree. Griffin has actually developed his game. Kemp had a decent mid range jumper, but he didn't have the skill Griffin does.

It might just be a matter of preference, I prefer Kemp's TUFFness inside defensively and on the boreds. I agree Griffin is more skilled. His passing game is light years beyond anything Kemp could do. OTOH, he only averaged 1.9 offensive boards per game this year, which is shameful for a big who doesn't shoot threes. I'm not sure Blake's as bad an offensive rebounder as he showed this year but I'm not sure he's as good a passer either.

I'm assuming the Clips play at a much faster pace than those Sonics did, but I have no idea where to find tempo independent stats for the 90's.

 

[RoadDawg55]

There were some great shoes in the 90's.

These aren't 90's shoes, but my all time favorite shoes to hoop in were these. I saw Kirk Hinrich wearing them when he played for Kansas. They aren't really that tight, but the feel of them.

Followed by

 

[HuskiesADW]

You can look at their numbers per 100 possessions. Not a perfect statistic as there is too many variables to consider but it still gives a good rough estimate.

Kemp:
28.3 pts
16.6 reb
3.4 ast
2.3 stl
2.7 blk
4.9 tov

Kemp advanced stats:
.602 true shooting %
22.3 Win Shares
24.3 usage %
9.1 VORP (value over replacement player)

Griffin:
32.8 pts
12.2 reb
6.4 ast
1.5 stl
.8 blk
3.6 tov

Griffin advanced stats:
.569 true shooting %
21.2 Win Shares
28.7 usage %
8.4 VORP

So looking at the numbers both were very similar players. That said looking at the advanced stats Kemp was the better player during their age 24/25 seasons. Blake will probably have the better career because of coke and stuff though.

 

[Doogles]

You can look at their numbers per 100 possessions. Not a perfect statistic as there is too many variables to consider but it still gives a good rough estimate.

Kemp:
28.3 pts
16.6 reb
3.4 ast
2.3 stl
2.7 blk
4.9 tov

Kemp advanced stats:
.602 true shooting %
22.3 Win Shares
24.3 usage %
9.1 VORP (value over replacement player)

Griffin:
32.8 pts
12.2 reb
6.4 ast
1.5 stl
.8 blk
3.6 tov

Griffin advanced stats:
.569 true shooting %
21.2 Win Shares
28.7 usage %
8.4 VORP

So looking at the numbers both were very similar players. That said looking at the advanced stats Kemp was the better player during their age 24/25 seasons. Blake will probably have the better career because of coke and stuff though.

I don't give a shit I love kemp. The air uptempo was a beautiful shoe. The air penny 2 was possibly the greatest shoe of all time.

 

[HeretoBeatmyChest]

In 96 Kemp had just outplayed Malone in the conference finals

And killed it in the Finals. He was only 25 and approaching the superstar level.

Fuckin Wally Walker. The Mark Emmert of the Seattle Supersonics.

 

[RaceBannon]

Downtown Freddy Brown was one of the first Nike shoe guys in the 70's. That's why I bought my first pair. I was the only one in the Rec Center with Nikes.

I bought my step son a pair of Air Jordans for Christmas in 1985 which made him the coolest kid in school. To this day he still talks about that

Edit to say thankfully no one shot him to steal them

 

[PurpleThrobber]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

No problem with that other than you could slide Charles to the 3 spot comfortably too.

Abundance.

But both are better than Kemp for Christ's sake.

 

[RaceBannon]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

No problem with that other than you could slide Charles to the 3 spot comfortably too.

Abundance.

But both are better than Kemp for Christ's sake.

Of course. Had I wrote Kemp was at a Hall of Fame level in 1996 we could have avoided all this. He was at the top of his game and the second best player in the world at the end of the Finals.

But you don't get in for throwing it all away by the next season

 

[RoadDawg55]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

No problem with that other than you could slide Charles to the 3 spot comfortably too.

Abundance.

But both are better than Kemp for Christ's sake.

Of course. Had I wrote Kemp was at a Hall of Fame level in 1996 we could have avoided all this. He was at the top of his game and the second best player in the world at the end of the Finals.

But you don't get in for throwing it all away by the next season

Shaq says hi.

 

[RaceBannon]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

No problem with that other than you could slide Charles to the 3 spot comfortably too.

Abundance.

But both are better than Kemp for Christ's sake.

Of course. Had I wrote Kemp was at a Hall of Fame level in 1996 we could have avoided all this. He was at the top of his game and the second best player in the world at the end of the Finals.

But you don't get in for throwing it all away by the next season

Shaq says hi.

From his couch watching the Finals?

 

[RoadDawg55]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

No problem with that other than you could slide Charles to the 3 spot comfortably too.

Abundance.

But both are better than Kemp for Christ's sake.

Of course. Had I wrote Kemp was at a Hall of Fame level in 1996 we could have avoided all this. He was at the top of his game and the second best player in the world at the end of the Finals.

But you don't get in for throwing it all away by the next season

Shaq says hi.

From his couch watching the Finals?

It's FS logic to call Kemp the 2nd best player in the world at the end of the finals. That's like saying Kawaii Leonard was the 2nd best player in the world after the 2014 season. Kemp was maybe (and imo 3rd or 4th) the 2nd best player in the Bulls series. I remember watching Malone destroy Kemp and the Sonics many times. In the series the Sonics won, Malone averaged 27, 11.6, and 5 compared to Kemp's 20, 10, and 1.3.

Discount stats all you want, but Malone was better than Kemp. So was Shaq, so was Hakeem, so was David Robinson. Grant Hill was up there. Pippen too. Kemp was damn good, but nobody thought he was the 2nd best player in the league. He was the 2nd best player on his team.

 

[RaceBannon]

ESPN Classic is your source?