Why does Jordan get a pass for '95?

[Tequilla]

Comparing eras is always difficult ... I think you have to look at the era as is and not try to extrapolate. If you say that a player today would be better than a player 30 years ago, and reasons that are cited are because of improved nutritional health, sports science, money, travel arrangements, etc., then I think you also have to consider that players in the past would also be better players IF they played in an era where that was the norm.

The game is completely different now for a number of reasons. One of the biggest is the emphasis and de-emphasis on post play. With defensive rules that allow more hybrid zone defenses, the ability to post has virtually vanished while all young bigs are busy trying to show that they can shoot 3's.

Anybody that would try to suggest that players like Magic, Bird, etc. wouldn't be successful in today's game because they weren't athletic enough, etc. are full of BS.

 

[ThomasFremont]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

 

[RaceBannon]

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is Jordan would have murdered the Mavericks franchise if they tried to guard him with JJ Barea.

If you were going to have a 5 on 5 game of all the NBA greats in their prime and your life was on the line you'd pick Jordan first every time. It doesn't matter if anyone is ever a better basketball player. You'd pick him first because you wouldn't want to piss him off. That's why he's the GOAT.

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good troll job

I'd like to see Jordan take it to the rim against Bill Russell though

 

[Doogles]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

 

[ThomasFremont]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?

 

[RaceBannon]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

The Warriors aren't a team?

 

[ThomasFremont]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

The Warriors aren't a team?

What about RoadDawgs's Hawks???

 

[Doogles]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?

You realize my whole angle this entire thread has been towards narrowing the gap between the two, right?

 

[ThomasFremont]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.

Jordan has 6-0.

LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.

If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.

This isn't even a debate.

LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.

Yes it is.

The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.

The athleticism is at an all-time high.

What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?

They were actual teams vz. Individuals.

I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.

Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.

Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.

You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?

You realize my whole angle this entire thread has been towards narrowing the gap between the two, right?

The gap isn't narrowing. It's widening. In LeBron's favor.

HTH

 

[SevenEleven]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

 

[greenblood]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

 

[Doogles]

I'm sorry, but Malone and Stockton are one of the best tandoms in the nba. It's a testament to Jordan to keep them at bay, but to say they aren't HOF worthy is Laoghaire

Edit: laughable

 

[RaceBannon]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

 

[Doogles]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.

 

[TierbsHsotBoobs]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

NBA TV had a great doc on the Rockets that took the Jordan issue on head on. As any viewer of ESPN Classic knows, the Rockets had struggled in the West during Jordan's first three. For one, they couldn't beat the Sonics. Even in 94 when they won their first title Seattle was the #1 seed. (fuck you Mutumbo)

They showed Jordan retiring and coming back and addressed his brief 1995 season. That was the year Hakeem abused the shit out of Shaq in a sweep.

The Rockets pointed to how they owned Jordan during the regular season through out those years -a true but meaningless fact.

Would have made a good finals at some point.

Jordan never beat a NBA champion after the first one against the Lakers with Magic and everyone hurt.

Not like beating a 5 time champ like the Spurs

Carry on

When you win every year, it's hard to beat another champ.

 

[TierbsHsotBoobs]

And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"

I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.

I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.

LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.

Disagree.

There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.

5-4 >>> 2-4, but still.

 

[PurpleThrobber]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Edit: one could suggest Barkley too - but Chuck was a hybrid big ass freak who played all over the floor.

 

[TierbsHsotBoobs]

Kemp had about 3 great years.

The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.

Charles Barkley >>> Karl Malone

 

[RoadDawg55]

I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.

Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily

Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix

Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.

Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit

I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.

The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.

Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp

NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit

There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.

WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?

Kemp was the best forward in the league

Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.

Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.

 

[RoadDawg55]

Barkley > Malone > Kemp.