If Hop stays, couple big men in the transfer portal they could look at.

Fucking Christ. I stopped reading after your suggestion that UW can’t expect to compete with Oregon/Arizona/USC and Creighton? Give me a fucking break. We have before, all it takes is a good coach.

Get this loser bullshit out of here. I can’t believe anyone is still defending Hop. Did you watch any of the games the past two years? It’s unfathomably bad, especially on offense.
 

I’m not advocating per se to go the direction of a smaller tier conference as the next coach

What I was referencing with those names is that when people are talking about getting a Big Sky coach, if I’m going that route I’m looking for someone with a track record of relatively sustained success. The idea being if you can’t regularly dominate at a lower tier what makes me think you can at an upper tier. The names I gave would be people that if I was an AD I’d be poking around to get a better understanding of as potential candidates either now or in the future.

You basically answered my point with regard to Creighton. They know who they are and what their identity is.

What would you say UW’s identity is as a program? Have they ever had an identity?

Closest they’ve ever had in the last 30 years was LoRo and recruiting locally. But when it came to an identity of who they are offensively, defensively, etc not really sure that has existed. Hop at least brought a defensive identity ... outdated but at least an identity.
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I agree, UW has probably never had an identity as a program...

If Hop doesn't turn it around, lets hire one of the Gonzaga coaches and call it a day.

I'm not too proud to say that a tiny school in Spokane could teach our relative failure of a basketball program a thing or 2.
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You're not going to get Tommy Lloyd. Never gonna happen in a gazillion years. He is the annointed one - and even if it's only for 10 years after Few bails, he's the guy.

And you really should read the New York Post article on Gonzaga basketball. Anybody thinking UW can replicate a once in a millennium sports anomaly is out of their mind. It's taken almost 30 years to reach this plane and EVERYTHING aligned - including fuck ups by the UW that pushed guys like NWG, Jeff Brown, Dan Dickau and Errol Knight to Spokane.

UW 'might' be able to attract Roger Powell because he's not from the family tree. It would take a boatload of cash and a very long term deal to grab Michaelson. He's the next gen down from Lloyd and he knows it. If there's such a thing as royalty in the state of Washington, Gonzaga players/coaches are it - only Don James' teams can reasonably approach it. Those guys never have to buy a beer again in their lives.

Ask Bill Grier, Leon Rice and Don Monson how going outside the family worked out.

 
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Fucking Christ. I stopped reading after your suggestion that UW can’t expect to compete with Oregon/Arizona/USC and Creighton? Give me a fucking break. We have before, all it takes is a good coach.

Get this loser bullshit out of here. I can’t believe anyone is still defending Hop. Did you watch any of the games the past two years? It’s unfathomably bad, especially on offense.
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Hop is gonna be the coach next year, deal with it.

Oregon, Arizona, USC are currently on another level than the Dawgs. Bringing in a new, small-conference coach isn't changing that any time soon... which is what others have proposed. And the kid Creighton got wasn't an all-world talent... a role player, nothing less. I didn't say we can't compete w. Creighton, but they are a better program and fit for the kid they got.

I'm only for getting a new coach if it's someone with a name, Archie Miller or the assistants from Gonzaga for example. Not some 38 year old nobody coach out of the Big Sky
 
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This just goes to show how just flat wrong you are @BroadcastingDawg

1) I’m not necessarily advocating for a lower level coach ... I’m giving criteria and names that would qualify if going that path

2) Regardless of when UW moves on from Hop whether this year, next, etc assuming he can’t right the ship (and the bet is he can’t) the reality is that his buyout and how much of it remains matters. The more that we’re on the hook for the buyout the greater the likelihood you’re trying to hire a coach on the come at a reasonable entry salary that you hope if all goes well you can then lock in with an extension to market rates

3) We’re not getting anybody from Gonzaga ... that’s not happening without someone there initiating contact ... it’s akin to Petersen at Boise on a higher level

4) Knocking a “role player” going to Creighton is EXACTLY what I’m talking about ... UW just accumulates talent and rolls the ball out hoping for results. I want a coach that has an identity of what they want and recruits to their identity vs taking the highest rated players or local players or whatever that may not result in the sum of the parts being greater than the sum of the individuals

5) Success is rarely achieved by trying to replicate what others are doing ... by default it puts a ceiling in what you can accomplish
 
Archie just got fired from Indiana. You really want him?
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Archie likely needs to show he’s learned from what has happened at Indians as he should have been successful there

I wonder if Indiana will kick the tires on Gregg Marshall
 
No on Ritchie McKay ... are you kidding me?
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Assistant for Tony Bennett at Virginia... Bennett personally sought him out.

"He earned a master’s degree in the packline defense and learned how Bennett built his program. That time also afforded him the ability to take a step back and redefine himself as a coach. It also gave him a sense of renewal both on and off the court. He was able to watch a program get built from the ground up at a different perspective... I got a chance just to serve Tony (Bennett), but I also got to watch him. That was just like a classroom. I learned a whole lot and got a chance to pour into some players. I just think it helped reshape my intentions in being in coaching, as well as, obviously, the basketball part. I was better equipped to be a head coach.”

And you can't scoff at the results... Liberty has been freaking good despite being the leader in obtuse Christian schools.
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You think local recruiting is bad now, try attracting Seattle kids to play Bennett Ball.

Nate and BRoy just lost their shit.
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I couldn't care less what Nate and BRoy think. Who gives a shit about them? What have they done to help the program the last 4 seasons? Diddly shit.

It's a brand of basketball that wins... Virginia has had no issues recruiting and they're fighting w. Duke and UNC + a much better overall conference for recruits.
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This. We need a coach that develops recruits. Bennett does that. He finds his guys and like you said, is consistently near the top of the ACC.
 
Archie just got fired from Indiana. You really want him?
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Archie likely needs to show he’s learned from what has happened at Indians as he should have been successful there

I wonder if Indiana will kick the tires on Gregg Marshall
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Archie and Gregg Marshall should spend a rehab year under Few. He's done it with a few guys during their severance years - the Boner did it for like $1 when WSU was paying him.

Similar to what Saban does with fuckups like Sark.

 
This just goes to show how just flat wrong you are @BroadcastingDawg

1) I’m not necessarily advocating for a lower level coach ... I’m giving criteria and names that would qualify if going that path

2) Regardless of when UW moves on from Hop whether this year, next, etc assuming he can’t right the ship (and the bet is he can’t) the reality is that his buyout and how much of it remains matters. The more that we’re on the hook for the buyout the greater the likelihood you’re trying to hire a coach on the come at a reasonable entry salary that you hope if all goes well you can then lock in with an extension to market rates

3) We’re not getting anybody from Gonzaga ... that’s not happening without someone there initiating contact ... it’s akin to Petersen at Boise on a higher level

4) Knocking a “role player” going to Creighton is EXACTLY what I’m talking about ... UW just accumulates talent and rolls the ball out hoping for results. I want a coach that has an identity of what they want and recruits to their identity vs taking the highest rated players or local players or whatever that may not result in the sum of the parts being greater than the sum of the individuals

5) Success is rarely achieved by trying to replicate what others are doing ... by default it puts a ceiling in what you can accomplish
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1) Then don't go that path. It's simple... it's not a winning strategy unless it's someone like a Miller or Altman.

2) Right, imagine that the schools who win are worried about spending money.

3) Why not? I don't see a reason why UW wouldn't be a prime candidate for a coaching job w. some of the Gonzaga coaches. Seattle is a solid recruiting station and the Gonzaga guys don't have to relocate to another planet to get a solid coaching gig.

4) And you know that how? You really think Hop just "took" recruits and didn't have a vision for how they'd fit... it's likely that the kid who went to Creighton didn't really fit the vision at UW...

5) Yeah well, tell that to any coach from a coaching tree who has been successful replicating what he was taught. I don't buy that... success is success... no matter where you draw the inspiration from.
 
@BroadcastingDawg you're all over the place dude just grasping for straws.

Let's talk about a coaching candidate pool:[/b]

If I'm the AD of a program like Washington, I'm constantly evaluating coaches in case I need to make a hire for any number of reasons. I'm going to consider and evaluate coaches at all levels because even at lower levels, the coaches there today may not be ready for a UW job now, but after making a move and having more success may be well positioned to be at a place like Washington. I have to be aware of what my budget limitations may be and be able to slot in tiers.

So while I'm not necessarily predisposed to making a hire out of a lower tier, I need to be aware of what's going on down there and have done enough networking to understand who I should be talking to.

Additionally, I need to also be aware of where the PAC12 ranks in the world of college basketball and where UW ranks within the PAC12. That potentially limits what established coaches I'm able to pursue with respect to exposure, what I can pay, etc.

The reality right now is that the PAC12 is the lowest rated conference of the traditional power 5 and reality is that the Big East is a bigger hoops conference than the PAC12. The TV contract sucks in general with way too many games (including the conference tournament) played on a network that nobody gets. So you're likely not getting someone to come to UW that isn't at least a flawed coach coming out of one of the 5 top leagues, crossing the fingers that you can get one of the top coaches in the next tier of conferences, or you shoot your shot on a lower tier conference coach that could be a home run hire (obviously the down side risk is obvious).

UW's Finances:[/b]

Hop's buyout of $12M isn't something to sneeze at. For us to make that buyout actually represents a decent % of anticipated Athletic Department spend over the payout period. It's far from inconsequential. Whether you, or others, want to believe it, UW's Athletic Department in the best of times doesn't operate with a blank check approach, doesn't have enough high value boosters that will write the check necessary to make a move for athletics (particularly from a basketball standpoint), to erase mistakes. The lack of revenues from the conference comparatively to other P5 conferences also hurts in the inability to erase mistakes. That's just a reality of where UW is. Then you throw the COVID implications into the equation, the reality being that the AD is hurting for cash right now, and will almost assuredly be making some massive fund raising efforts on the other side of COVID ... that's not a great situation to be in as an AD when you have to explain to everybody that the coach that YOU hired and who YOU gave a massive extension relatively recently with UW taking on too much risk if the situation went south that you're now asking boosters to write you a $12M check IN ADDITION to all the other funding required to plug budget gaps. That's a good way to get fired.

Gonzaga Assistant to UW:[/b]

There's absolutely zero reason for Tommy Lloyd to take any interest in the UW job. He's the mastermind behind Gonzaga and should Gonzaga win this year, would it really be that shocking if Few retired? IF Lloyd was to leave Gonzaga, then you're likely looking at him taking one of the made jobs in college basketball. I don't even think a storied program like Indiana could get him to even think about it. Have to think UCLA would have at least gauged interest before hiring Cronin. Frankly, UW isn't a job worth taking for him ... it's all risk and reward.

The thing is that UW doesn't need to run the program like Gonzaga. What UW needs to do is take away some lessons from Gonzaga. Have an identity. Recruit to that identity. Have a recruiting reach that isn't just locally tied but also nationally and internationally. Focus offensively on a style that is structured, promotes sharing the ball, values skill across the board, and is fundamentally sound. I wouldn't focus on what Gonzaga does defensively because that's probably held them back at times. But knowing who they are ... that's something Gonzaga does as well as any program in the country.

Hop's Vision[/b]

Hop is schooled in the Syracuse mindset. By and large, what's valued by Hop starts defensively first. It's about athleticism and length. Look at Syracuse teams over the last 15 years and largely it's been defensively focused, fairly ugly offensively, and a lot of blunt force trauma. That's how Hop valued recruiting initially. What we found was that offensively the program wasn't good enough.

What Hop is at a crossroads at is that the zone that he's used to as his base defense is kind of moving to being obsolete. Failure to create a fluid offense with skill at all 5 spots on the court is a recipe for disaster. So he's stuck in a massive identity crisis and that as much as anything is why he's failing because if you can't decide who you want to be, and you can't really articulate that in recruiting, then you're going to get destroyed in recruiting.

Replication of a Program[/b]

My comments were more towards saying that you don't look at peer programs and try to do what they do. You have to be able to differentiate yourself. What you see with Hop is that Hop's really good at coaching what he knew from Boeheim. But as he's had to adjust and put his stamp on the program, he's struggled to determine what his exactly identity is. And that's the point with hiring from a coaching tree. Everybody comes from one one way or another. But how is a coach differentiating themselves? What are they doing differently? As with most things you want to keep what works well and tweak areas that can be improved.

I'm not interested in taking on a coach because he was part of this program or that program. A great example is someone like Roy Williams. Clearly it doesn't hurt to get your foundation coming from Dean Smith. But Roy Williams wouldn't have been as successful as he's been for 30+ years if his identity was what he learned from Dean Smith and didn't find ways to continue evolving over the years. This line of questioning would be at the top of the list for any coach that I'd be interviewing that was an assistant without head coaching experience. That also requires you to know the details of the game when going through the interview process from the recruiting side of things.
 
And lets actually talk about your 31 offers...

6 of them turned pro so that reduces your list to 25.

The Huskies didn't have a chance with/extended courtesy offers to: Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, Josh Christopher, Frank Kepnang, Jaden Harding, Peyton Watson, Nolan Hickman, Trey Patterson, Zaon Collins, Will McClendon...

Why? Because these are the cream of the crop players who played at major prep schools and had offers from the Dukes/Kentucky's/UNC's of the world and literally everyone BIG offers them... or did all other 30+ power teams who offered them and didn't land them fail as well?

Reduces your list to 14.

Then there's solid 4 star kids who do not fit the designation above but are literally from Alabama, Texas, West Virginia who just flat out couldn't locate Seattle on a map and clearly weren't coming here:

Jusuan Holt, Isaiah Cotrell, LJ Cryer...

Reduces your list to 11 players who realistically would come to UW, so yeah, if we're being honest its not really 31. [/b]

The Huskies offered but probably didn't care much to get: Braxton Meah, Kendall Munson, Lamont Butler, Mitchell Saxson, Noah Taitz, < - these are mostly players who signed w. mediocre programs knowing they'd never get minutes if they signed w. a Power Conference team... and these are players you'd be bitching about them signing anyway.

Reduces your list 5.

So what remains?

Paolo Banchero -> would have loved to have gotten him... but he chose to go to Duke... can't fault him there, even if they are coming off their worst season since 1996. He's a UW guy, but he chose a path to a lottery pick and the pros that's guaranteed.

Kaden Perry - > would have loved to have gotten him... but he signed with Gonzaga... he's from the Eastern side of the state and GU is the no. 1 team in the country at the moment... so no chance there.

Who we, in my opinion, failed to get that we should have had a chance with:[/b]

Shane Nowell -> why we didn't secure Jaylen's brother is beyond me and a failure in my eyes. we shouldn't be losing him to Arizona and it's a big loss.

Julian Strawther -> Dawgs were rumored to high on his list, but again... he chose Gonzaga... can't fault him there.

John Christofilis -> He should be a Husky... no excuse to let a kid go who is as solid ass shooter... and decided to go to Creighton...

^^^ These are the realistic misses

Even then, the guys who realistically had a chance with signed with Duke, Arizona, Gonzaga and Creighton... so it wasn't even like we had a serious chance here either considering how good these programs are year after year.

So basically... there were 6 guys they really wanted and had a chance to get based on geography and familiarity with the program... they got 1 in Jackson Grant.

They didn't fail on 31.
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Thanks for pointing out hop was 0 for 31.

Doesn't matter how he got there or who was realistic.....0 for 31 is special. Make it 1 for 32 with Jackson Grant

.200 is the Mendoza line

3% is the Hopkins line.
 
I have met Tommy Lloyd and it’s hard to believe that he’s a mastermind of anything. He’s a doofus. Mark Few is the the mastermind.

He recruits well overseas and seems to be an important cog in the Zaggot machine, but I don’t think he would do well at UW or any big job.

A lot of Duke assistants have been shitty head coaches, same for Gonzaga and really any big program. It’s always a crapshoot. I would prefer a head coach from a lower level over an assistant.

There is a lot of bullshit about hiring a Seattle lackey for the local talent. It’s hard to call B Roy a lackey, but we aren’t going to win simply by recruiting.

We gotta develop guys and get those 3-4 year players to form a solid core. Then add in a one and done type. That shit doesn’t work and has been overhyped for years. The four star guys that stays 4 years is a way more valuable player to the program than a one and done five star.
 
I have met Tommy Lloyd and it’s hard to believe that he’s a mastermind of anything. He’s a doofus. Mark Few is the the mastermind.

He recruits well overseas and seems to be an important cog in the Zaggot machine, but I don’t think he would do well at UW or any big job.

A lot of Duke assistants have been shitty head coaches, same for Gonzaga and really any big program. It’s always a crapshoot. I would prefer a head coach from a lower level over an assistant.

There is a lot of bullshit about hiring a Seattle lackey for the local talent. It’s hard to call B Roy a lackey, but we aren’t going to win simply by recruiting.

We gotta develop guys and get those 3-4 year players to form a solid core. Then add in a one and done type. That shit doesn’t work and has been overhyped for years. The four star guys that stays 4 years is a way more valuable player to the program than a one and done five star.
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They're both kind of douchebags if you really want to know. Lloyd just never shuts the fuck up.

Hiring a Gonzaga assistant 1) isn't going to happen with their current group of coaches and 2) they do implode out on their own. There's not a built in support system of 25 years of 'Zags' being big brothers/assholes/setting the example on how to be part of the culture. Elsewhere, football is king. The Zag thing can probably never be replicated.

If you really want to make heads explode with former Duke assistants, toss Quinn Snyder's name out there as UW head coach. Dude cheats like a motherfucker and will eventually get fired in the NBA. I'm down.

He knows where the good blow on Mercer Island is too.

 
I have met Tommy Lloyd and it’s hard to believe that he’s a mastermind of anything. He’s a doofus. Mark Few is the the mastermind.

He recruits well overseas and seems to be an important cog in the Zaggot machine, but I don’t think he would do well at UW or any big job.

A lot of Duke assistants have been shitty head coaches, same for Gonzaga and really any big program. It’s always a crapshoot. I would prefer a head coach from a lower level over an assistant.

There is a lot of bullshit about hiring a Seattle lackey for the local talent. It’s hard to call B Roy a lackey, but we aren’t going to win simply by recruiting.

We gotta develop guys and get those 3-4 year players to form a solid core. Then add in a one and done type. That shit doesn’t work and has been overhyped for years. The four star guys that stays 4 years is a way more valuable player to the program than a one and done five star.
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They're both kind of douchebags if you really want to know. Lloyd just never shuts the fuck up.

Hiring a Gonzaga assistant 1) isn't going to happen with their current group of coaches and 2) they do implode out on their own. There's not a built in support system of 25 years of 'Zags' being big brothers/assholes/setting the example on how to be part of the culture. Elsewhere, football is king. The Zag thing can probably never be replicated.

If you really want to make heads explode with former Duke assistants, toss Quinn Snyder's name out there as UW head coach. Dude cheats like a motherfucker and will eventually get fired in the NBA. I'm down.

He knows where the good blow on Mercer Island is too.
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The nba coach with the best record seems like a good suggestion to coach at the university of Washington. I’m on board.
 
I have met Tommy Lloyd and it’s hard to believe that he’s a mastermind of anything. He’s a doofus. Mark Few is the the mastermind.

He recruits well overseas and seems to be an important cog in the Zaggot machine, but I don’t think he would do well at UW or any big job.

A lot of Duke assistants have been shitty head coaches, same for Gonzaga and really any big program. It’s always a crapshoot. I would prefer a head coach from a lower level over an assistant.

There is a lot of bullshit about hiring a Seattle lackey for the local talent. It’s hard to call B Roy a lackey, but we aren’t going to win simply by recruiting.

We gotta develop guys and get those 3-4 year players to form a solid core. Then add in a one and done type. That shit doesn’t work and has been overhyped for years. The four star guys that stays 4 years is a way more valuable player to the program than a one and done five star.
Click to expand...

They're both kind of douchebags if you really want to know. Lloyd just never shuts the fuck up.

Hiring a Gonzaga assistant 1) isn't going to happen with their current group of coaches and 2) they do implode out on their own. There's not a built in support system of 25 years of 'Zags' being big brothers/assholes/setting the example on how to be part of the culture. Elsewhere, football is king. The Zag thing can probably never be replicated.

If you really want to make heads explode with former Duke assistants, toss Quinn Snyder's name out there as UW head coach. Dude cheats like a motherfucker and will eventually get fired in the NBA. I'm down.

He knows where the good blow on Mercer Island is too.
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The nba coach with the best record seems like a good suggestion to coach at the university of Washington. I’m on board.
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More hopeful on the MI coke draw than probability of wooing QS on the merits of the job. Because that's shit.

 
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