BennyBeaver
Active poster
Fuck off ya Noob.
I chime in whenever and wherever I want.
You can continue to suck the lil generals snicker all you want. Bring him in; it’ll prove me right.
If Hop stays, couple big men in the transfer portal they could look at.
- Thread starter BroadcastingDawg
- Start date
Fuck off ya Noob.
I chime in whenever and wherever I want.
You can continue to suck the lil generals snicker all you want. Bring him in; it’ll prove me right.
They don’t call it McKay ball.
Why go to UW when you can go to UVA - a school that actually gives a fuck about basketball - and play for the namesake himself and a guy who has won a natty?
You don’t think Tony Bennett has a line on every player in the State of Washington who could shine in his system? He did spend a few years around here.
Richie McKay...Jesus Christ.
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BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
And Legans is somehow better...? Some moron who played at CAL forever ago... who made a Big Sky program competitive in one of the worst leagues in America and only has experience coaching 1-star white kids?
He doesn't have a single player on his roster who is from the Western side of the state. He has 0 ties to anyone worth a damn in the state of Washington... and the school he coaches at is in a shittier version of Spokane.
On what planet do kids come play for the Dawgs under this nobody?
At least McKay went to SPU and coached at UW which means he knows what the Western side of the state looks like and probably still has connections within the program... he reinvented himself under a coaching regime that won a natty, he is known as a great recruiter.... and his Liberty teams have been elite, far superior to Eastern's.
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BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
Fuck off.
Get the Legans talk out of here.
Tequilla
Active poster
Have you seen me back him?
Washington shouldn’t be looking at bottom tier conference coaches without a significantly established track record of success ... which is not true at Eastern at this point.
You want to know what that looks like?
You lose 1 conference game in 3 years.
You win 3 straight conference tournaments.
You win NCAA games 2 out of 3 years.
That’s Brad Underwood’s resume at Stephen F Austin
Now, you want to go dig at the depths of the NCAAs and find me a resume like that I’m listening ... even in the Big Sky
But don’t bring me the resume of somebody not dominating in a lower tier conference and try to sell me that that coach will dominate at Washington
BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
Then do me a favor and jump on Purple Throbber for his coaching suggestion and quit jumping on me like it's the cool thing to do.
Cause Legans? That shit would be apocalyptic for the program.
And I did... what McKay has done at Liberty is quite similar except with like 5 or so conference losses.
Liberty won their conference in 2019, 2020, 2021.
Liberty won their conference tournament in 2019, 2020, 2021.
They beat a 5 seed Miss St. in 2019 and who knows what they might have done in 2020 when they were 30-4.
There's a lot of people picking them to beat Ok St. in the 1st round this year.
They're also something like 5-8 against power conference opponents since he took over despite having far inferior talent on their roster. Underwood's SFA teams were 2-8 and the 2 wins came in the tournament.
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Tequilla
Active poster
Big difference between McKay and Underwood is McKay worked his way up, had a P5 opportunity, and BOMBED
Good for him getting back on the horse and doing good work with Liberty.
McKay’s 55 and just isn’t moving the needle with a hire on a number of fronts.
I saw the Legans/Cal reference as a joke
Good for him getting back on the horse and doing good work with Liberty.
McKay’s 55 and just isn’t moving the needle with a hire on a number of fronts.
I saw the Legans/Cal reference as a joke
BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
He's not joking.
And Underwood is 57, was 53 when he took the job at Illinois.
I get that McKay struggled coaching at Oregon St. 20 years ago... but who doesn't? That school is shit for athletics. And the P12 was fucking tough in that era. Nobody has won consistently at that program since the 80's. And the guy he took the program over from was 52-88 in 4 seasons... doubt he left much talent around.
I like the fact that he was associate head coach for Bennett at Virginia... those 2 did some amazing things together. And it's clear he's turned over a new leaf as a head coach...
Short of bringing in Tommy Lloyd or Brian Michaelson, I'm not sure who you can look at with West Coast ties as a realistic choice that's going to turn the program around in the way we hope. My suggestion is purely off the fact that McKay has Washington ties, has shown to be an extremely successful head coach the last 3 years, and coached under an extremely successful coaching regime at Virginia.
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Tequilla
Active poster
And if there was to be a move after firing Hop, some lower tier coaches I’d look at (no particular order):
Pat Kelsey - Winthrop
Wes Miller - UNC Greensboro
Matt Langel - Colgate
Craig Smith - Utah St
Porter Moser - Loyola Chicago (although I think he may jump to Creighton if McDermott has died fallout)
Dennis Gates - Cleveland St
Bryce Drew - Grand Canyon
That’s a decent list to start with ...
Top 3 I’d want to talk with in no order are Kelsey, Langel, and Drew
Pat Kelsey - Winthrop
Wes Miller - UNC Greensboro
Matt Langel - Colgate
Craig Smith - Utah St
Porter Moser - Loyola Chicago (although I think he may jump to Creighton if McDermott has died fallout)
Dennis Gates - Cleveland St
Bryce Drew - Grand Canyon
That’s a decent list to start with ...
Top 3 I’d want to talk with in no order are Kelsey, Langel, and Drew
Tequilla
Active poster
Underwood went to Oklahoma St first before going to Illinois. Moreover, he had a ton of experience as a bench boss under Huggy Bear at Kansas St and Frank Martin at both K State and South Carolina
Simply put on McKay, I’m not interested in going to the Bennett coaching tree. I’ve long not been a fan of that style of play and despise a slower paced game that limits possessions. That pace isn’t going to drive local recruiting.
Speaking of local recruiting, the idea that the next coach has to have local ties is garbage. The next coach has to be able to articulate a vision for how their teams play and be able to convince local kids that their skill sets will be maximized in the system to the extent that those players are capable (don’t get me started on the local market).
Simply put, we need a coach that is consistent with modern basketball, knows what he wants the identity of his team to be, and recruits to that.
There’s a significant opening on the west coast for a program to embrace more of an up-tempo and aggressive approach when it comes to offense. Be more like Gonzaga in free flowing offense than whatever UCLA is doing with Cronin playing relatively slow paced games (a joke at UCLA)
BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
Ok... lets be more like Gonzaga and hire one of their assistants.
You're not going to convince a lot of people that head coaches from New York and South Carolina by way of Ohio and Pennsylvania are the right choices after what's transpired w. Hop.
And those coaches you mentioned might be able to articulate a vision, but do you seriously think they would have convinced a Shane Nowell or Koren Johnson to stick around if Hop got fired? Not only do they not have ties in Washington, they've never sniffed the West Coast... You really see one of these coaches beating USC, UCLA, Gonzaga, Oregon and Arizona for recruits in a manner timely enough to turn this thing around that fans find acceptable?
I'm not sure I see it.
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Tequilla
Active poster
Why should I care about West Coast ties?
Let’s be clear that the most important thing is hiring a strong coach.
By putting a qualifier on the hire like that you’re artificially limiting your candidate pool.
Moreover, the claim of needing west coast ties doesn’t resonate when you look at all the national programs that come in and take local kids. We lost a local kid to Creighton for fucks sake. Don’t give me this we need local ties BS.
Additionally, one event doesn’t mean another event. Hop’s issues locally are tied to Hop and not because of where his ties came from.
My list focused on existing head coaches vs assistants that may have been first time coaches. If you have the pull and scratch to get Tommy Lloyd to leave Gonzaga then you obviously talk to him.
That whole West Coast tie thing ... please tell me the ties that Miller, Altman, Cronin, and Enfield had to the West Coast prior to taking their current jobs?
My requirements for a head coach is someone with existing head coach experience with a track record of success. A coach that has an identity for their program particularly on the offensive end that resonates with the current direction of basketball. Someone that can articulate that vision to both recruits, the local hoops scene, and supporters of the program.
My expectations for a coach is the first couple of years likely is a rebuild getting talent into the program cleaning up from Hop’s issues. I expect to be a NCAA team at minimum 3 out of every 5 years which roughly sets expectations for being a Top 4 program in the conference.
All of this is moot anyway as Hoo’s not getting fired this year
Let’s be clear that the most important thing is hiring a strong coach.
By putting a qualifier on the hire like that you’re artificially limiting your candidate pool.
Moreover, the claim of needing west coast ties doesn’t resonate when you look at all the national programs that come in and take local kids. We lost a local kid to Creighton for fucks sake. Don’t give me this we need local ties BS.
Additionally, one event doesn’t mean another event. Hop’s issues locally are tied to Hop and not because of where his ties came from.
My list focused on existing head coaches vs assistants that may have been first time coaches. If you have the pull and scratch to get Tommy Lloyd to leave Gonzaga then you obviously talk to him.
That whole West Coast tie thing ... please tell me the ties that Miller, Altman, Cronin, and Enfield had to the West Coast prior to taking their current jobs?
My requirements for a head coach is someone with existing head coach experience with a track record of success. A coach that has an identity for their program particularly on the offensive end that resonates with the current direction of basketball. Someone that can articulate that vision to both recruits, the local hoops scene, and supporters of the program.
My expectations for a coach is the first couple of years likely is a rebuild getting talent into the program cleaning up from Hop’s issues. I expect to be a NCAA team at minimum 3 out of every 5 years which roughly sets expectations for being a Top 4 program in the conference.
All of this is moot anyway as Hoo’s not getting fired this year
BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
I agree that it's moot... which is why all along I've been the one saying Hop's sticking around so get over it haha
We lost a kid to Creighton because Creighton is a nationally recognized program... they're a perennial tournament contender and top-25 team. Washington has never been that... nor has UW been a place where 6'0 white kids feel they can go huck up 30 3's a game like they can at Creighton... which is this kid's game.
There's a big difference between the programs Miller, Altman and Enfield took over.
Miller took over an Arizona program with tons and tons of history behind it... AZ is known as a basketball power house and recruits perceived it as such. Miller also coached 4 straight Xavier teams to NCAA tournament appearances and was a hot, well-known commodity in the coaching prospect circle... he wasn't a relative nobody.
Oregon is a recruiters dream because of the Nike money... given the amount of cash they're pumping out, it should be surprising when a coach fails at this school. Not to mention that Altman turned Creighton into a well-known, mid major power that made 6 NCAA tournament appearances and was also a hot commodity when he left.
Enfield was an assistant coach for 2x NBA teams... that's a pretty big selling point I'm sure when you're trying to convince 5-star recruits like the Mobley brothers to come play basketball for you... not to mention the cash I'm sure goes out to players and their families he brings in. Much like Arizona, USC does nefarious shit to get recruits to come there.
Washington is not like these programs.
And coaching at Colgate/Winthrop is not the same as coaching at Xavier/Creighton... nor have the coaches you mentioned accomplished nearly as much with their programs as Miller or Altman did.
I'm a little surprised that people here would be willing to give a new coach a 2-3 window to rebuild when they're ready to axe Hop now after a couple poor seasons, difference is Hop proved he's capable of leading a team to a tournament at UW...
Tequilla
Active poster
I’m not advocating per se to go the direction of a smaller tier conference as the next coach
What I was referencing with those names is that when people are talking about getting a Big Sky coach, if I’m going that route I’m looking for someone with a track record of relatively sustained success. The idea being if you can’t regularly dominate at a lower tier what makes me think you can at an upper tier. The names I gave would be people that if I was an AD I’d be poking around to get a better understanding of as potential candidates either now or in the future.
You basically answered my point with regard to Creighton. They know who they are and what their identity is.
What would you say UW’s identity is as a program? Have they ever had an identity?
Closest they’ve ever had in the last 30 years was LoRo and recruiting locally. But when it came to an identity of who they are offensively, defensively, etc not really sure that has existed. Hop at least brought a defensive identity ... outdated but at least an identity.
What I was referencing with those names is that when people are talking about getting a Big Sky coach, if I’m going that route I’m looking for someone with a track record of relatively sustained success. The idea being if you can’t regularly dominate at a lower tier what makes me think you can at an upper tier. The names I gave would be people that if I was an AD I’d be poking around to get a better understanding of as potential candidates either now or in the future.
You basically answered my point with regard to Creighton. They know who they are and what their identity is.
What would you say UW’s identity is as a program? Have they ever had an identity?
Closest they’ve ever had in the last 30 years was LoRo and recruiting locally. But when it came to an identity of who they are offensively, defensively, etc not really sure that has existed. Hop at least brought a defensive identity ... outdated but at least an identity.
greenblood
New Fish
Why would anybody want to transfer to Hop? Basketball is the one sport where you do not need to go to a big conference to succeed in the draft. If we are being honest, Santa Clara and UC Irvine are just as good of destinations.
BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
Odd question considering 3 players, 2 of them former top-100 recruits, transferred into Hop last year.
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BroadcastingDawg
New Fish
I agree, UW has probably never had an identity as a program...
If Hop doesn't turn it around, lets hire one of the Gonzaga coaches and call it a day.
I'm not too proud to say that a tiny school in Spokane could teach our relative failure of a basketball program a thing or 2.