Courtney Morgan (future Doog Legend candidate) finally coming to terms with UW recruiting

[whlinder]

Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.

It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Target physical freaks that are not pussies. Find some guys that are leaders too. I don’t care what their stars are but the reality is those guys are typically ranked higher.

This is not hard and the argument on both sides is stupid.

 

[HFNY]

Morgan is probably prepping people for Kevonte Henry to head to Oklahoma or Florida instead of UW.

There is a direct relationship between avg. star rating and a team's success on the field.

But the recruiting services (and coaches) regularly miss 2 and 3 star recruits who turn out to be 4 and 5 star college players. Though it's worth pointing out that even Alabama takes at least a few 3-stars every year and in 2018, they took seven 3-star players.

Bottom line is #GiveMeJoshOrGiveMeDeath...closing out with him and a few high 3-stars (Vega, Triston Dunn, E. Winston) and a few other guys would be fine with me since the big bump will come for the 2023 class.

 

[LebamDawg]

The whole you there's some 2 stars and shit that can be turned into NFL stars narrative is a dead Horse that's been picked away by vultures and is now a skeleton bleached in the sun. The majority of the guys in the NFL right now are a bunch of big time recruits who played at Alabama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Georgia.

 

[godawgst]

If Morgan .001% or more truly believed that, and said/implied that in any way to Harbaugh then I one hundred percent understand why we were able to "poach" him away from Michigan.

This is what you say when you have figured out the rated high end kids on your board are not coming here and are pivoting to plan B.

 

[RoadDawg55]

People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.

Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.

I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.

We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.

There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.

It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.

Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.

Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.

There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.

Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time.

 

[RoadDawg55]

Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.

It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players.

They were all really good in college besides Josh Allen.

 

[FireCohen]

People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.

Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.

I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.

We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.

There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.

It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.

Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.

Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.

There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.

Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time.

this NIL stuff is a game changer. If UW does not get its head out of its ass it might be holding the short end of the stick. I don't think the old formula will work.

 

[Motrboatnsob]

Did any of those guys do anything significant in college (other than Burrow obviously). Axing seriously.

It’s cool they’re great NFL players. Morgan’s job is to find great college players.

They were all really good in college besides Josh Allen.

Only a fan base as drunk as Buffalo would have supported Allen when he was picked.

 

[chuck]

Target physical freaks that are not pussies. Find some guys that are leaders too. I don’t care what their stars are but the reality is those guys are typically ranked higher.

This is not hard and the argument on both sides is stupid.

There are future stars out there without 4* ratings...a lot of them. Any good staff at UW is going to find them. Hell even the bad staffs (Ty in particular) did. UW is never going to pull top 10 classes again barring a major reset

People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.

Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.

I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.

We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.

There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.

It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.

Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.

Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.

There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.

Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time.

Yep all true. I try to see through the rankings and be objective about recruits and sometimes I get it right. I saw the quality of guys like Jones and Gaines but that really wasn't hard. The rankings were easy to look past. Petersen and his crew were good at getting the overlooked 3* guys and I'm pretty convinced that's the key to succeeding at UW from a personnel standpoint. Top 20 classes are fine if the evaluation and development are good.

DeBoer and his guys should be similarly good at snagging guys that BSU, Fresno, or Utah would turn into good players.

 

[RatherBeBrewing]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

 

[chuck]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

People here get hyperbolic about TBS and star chasing, but the truth is nobody is going to say they wouldn't prefer a roster full of blue chip recruits. My opinion is that UW has seen it's peak in that regard, under the current circumstances, at somewhere close to 50% blue chips on the roster though. You probably need more than 40-45 blue chippers spread across 4 classes to get on the field, so they'd better be able to identify, sign, and develop some lower rated players or final season rankings are going to peak similarly to the recruiting rankings. Nobody here is content to accept finishing 15-25 in the final rankings as a ceiling.

 

[RoadDawg55]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

 

[RoadDawg55]

We talk about high standards… I do have high standards and expect UW to have better WR’s than Ty Jones, Spiker, and Austin Osbourne. 3 guys that can’t even cut it at in shitty conferences.

We aren’t getting a ton of guys that are the physical freaks. Those guys are really rare. Find good football players and develop them.There are plenty of them out there. Be better at getting more of those guys on your roster. Some of them are highly ranked and some aren’t.

 

[Beno4Life]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

So you’re asking for perfect evaluations, because Pete, arguably one of the greatest developers of underrated, raw football players, signed Spiker, Osborne, and Ty Jones.

Some 4 stars don’t pan out.

Some 3 stars don’t pan out.

Shoot your shot at the higher-rated dudes, whiff, and sign your local 3-star studs like Tryon, Kirkland, Gaskin, etc.

 

[Ice_Holmvik]

People jeep pointing at this collapse and the higher rated recruiting classes coinciding as though there is a cause and effect. There isn't. The 18-20 classes would be benefitting UW right now if they had been coached.

Coaches target the guys they want most first, and those are always going to be primarily 4* and 5* players at UW. Landing them doesn't drive the program off a cliff. Running it like UW does though.

I think you also have to have the balls to take a lower 3 star that coaches feel is undervalued and can play. When you find Sidney Jones and Greg Gaines, make room for them. Take Drew Samole over Culp and Redman. I know they aren’t in the same classes, but the point remains.

We are never going to recruit like Oregon State or WSU. We’ll get some highly ranked guys. We always do. Even Ty and Sark did it.

There is such a marginal difference between the 10th ranked class and the 20th. We hit the blue chip ratio but there was so much dead weight in there and a ton of guys that were overvalued.

It’s not as simple as saying the top ranked recruiting classes win titles. USC had an article written that said their coaches would call the recruiting guys and get their rankings bumped up so that the coaches could take their commitments.

Greg Biggins and others become friendly with certain recruits and their families. It leads to bias. Same for Biggins and others getting more access at certain high schools because they are friendly with the coaches.

Like someone said, the rankings are mostly done early and they don’t like to stoop guys 200 spots, like they really should.

There are many faults with the rankings and after the top guys, it gets murky. They even miss on some of the top guys.

Evaluate, recruit, close the guys you want and can get, develop. Worrying about whether we are 12th or 21st in the rankings is incredibly FS and a waste of time.

Peterson's first class was money and I believe he stuck to his recruiting style on that class. I think after that the pressure to "Recruit at the Pac 12 level" and expectations of leveling up fucked with his process and he got away from doing things his way going after higher rated guys but never quite figured it out.

 

[RatherBeBrewing]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

I would also like coaches that are able to do something consistently that no one else in the world has been able to.[/b]

Predict the athletic future of 17 year old boys with 75% accuracy. While continuing to fulfill all other obligations of their job. Some people think that’s easier to do when the 17 year olds are the ones who everyone thinks have that potential.

Sometimes three stars don’t have offers for legit reasons, like Herbert having a handful of starts since he broke his leg and never showed up to a camp. Or Mariota not being the starting QB at his high school before he committing to Oregon. Maybe they’re undersized, new to the sport, or borderline on qualifying. But usually it’s because they aren’t good enough, aren’t consistent, have questionable athleticism, or have other issues.

This sounds like Oregon fans that pine for the days of when all you needed to lose to Ohio State in the championship game was the Chip Kelly system. Along with an inefficient scouting system changed by digital video and communication, and signing 38 4-stars and five 5-stars in the preceding four years. They saw the potential in Arik Armstead and DeForest Buckner that few others saw.

They did whiff on some recruits. I think your theory of them not having the balls to determine who was slow and a pussy was the main cause. I’ll be sure to forward that on to the AD, I want to make sure they tested Lanning’s balls for skill in scouting WR speed.

 

[RoadDawg55]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

So you’re asking for perfect evaluations, because Pete, arguably one of the greatest developers of underrated, raw football players, signed Spiker, Osborne, and Ty Jones.

Some 4 stars don’t pan out.

Some 3 stars don’t pan out.

Shoot your shot at the higher-rated dudes, whiff, and sign your local 3-star studs like Tryon, Kirkland, Gaskin, etc.

Every school is going to miss on some guys. I do expect us to be better than other schools at evaluating and it’s entirely possible.

 

[AEB]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

I would also like coaches that are able to do something consistently that no one else in the world has been able to.[/b]

Predict the athletic future of 17 year old boys with 75% accuracy. While continuing to fulfill all other obligations of their job. Some people think that’s easier to do when the 17 year olds are the ones who everyone thinks have that potential.

Sometimes three stars don’t have offers for legit reasons, like Herbert having a handful of starts since he broke his leg and never showed up to a camp. Or Mariota not being the starting QB at his high school before he committing to Oregon. Maybe they’re undersized, new to the sport, or borderline on qualifying. But usually it’s because they aren’t good enough, aren’t consistent, have questionable athleticism, or have other issues.

This sounds like Oregon fans that pine for the days of when all you needed to lose to Ohio State in the championship game was the Chip Kelly system. Along with an inefficient scouting system changed by digital video and communication, and signing 38 4-stars and five 5-stars in the preceding four years. They saw the potential in Arik Armstead and DeForest Buckner that few others saw.

They did whiff on some recruits. I think your theory of them not having the balls to determine who was slow and a pussy was the main cause. I’ll be sure to forward that on to the AD, I want to make sure they tested Lanning’s balls for skill in scouting WR speed.

I like your post but I’m throwing a flag on Armstead reference. AA was a huge recruit from Elk Grove. Sark and Tosh drove the bus to Sac and projected a PowerPoint like a legitimate business mans. Guys wanted Armstead and he told UW to pound sand.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Number of recruits of each star rank and percentage drafted from the 2020 NFL draft and the 247 composite:

Five-star: 19/30 (62.3%)
Four-star: 73/311 (23.5%)
Three-star: 111/1,831 (6%)
Two-Star: 32/1,949 (1.6%)

Not wanting four stars and attempting to convince yourself otherwise is stupid.
Not all kids are properly rated, NFL draft is partially potential, etc etc - the team with a higher recruiting rank wins more often and has a higher floor and ceiling, those are indisputable facts that no development magic overcomes.

Patrick Mahomes (398th overall) was 50 spots away from being a four-star, once again demonstrating there needs to be a three-star cutoff much earlier so it means something. Travis Kelce was a recruit 14 years ago, two years before 247 existed. Cooper Kupp is an outlier from Yakima. His Rams teammate and fellow face-on-graphic Aaron Donald was the 353rd ranked recruit, a fart away from 4-star status. The LA Rams have seven five-stars, 13% of their roster.

Nobody doesn’t want 4 stars. I want coaches smart and good enough at evaluating to know a guy likely sucks, regardless of ranking. I want coaches smart enough to not question why 20 other schools haven’t offered a low 3 star that they think can play. That’s it.

Have the balls to look at Spiker and know he’s a slow and a pussy. Have the balls to take Sidney Jones. We wouldn’t have 3 years later.

I would also like coaches that are able to do something consistently that no one else in the world has been able to.[/b]

Predict the athletic future of 17 year old boys with 75% accuracy. While continuing to fulfill all other obligations of their job. Some people think that’s easier to do when the 17 year olds are the ones who everyone thinks have that potential.

Sometimes three stars don’t have offers for legit reasons, like Herbert having a handful of starts since he broke his leg and never showed up to a camp. Or Mariota not being the starting QB at his high school before he committing to Oregon. Maybe they’re undersized, new to the sport, or borderline on qualifying. But usually it’s because they aren’t good enough, aren’t consistent, have questionable athleticism, or have other issues.

This sounds like Oregon fans that pine for the days of when all you needed to lose to Ohio State in the championship game was the Chip Kelly system. Along with an inefficient scouting system changed by digital video and communication, and signing 38 4-stars and five 5-stars in the preceding four years. They saw the potential in Arik Armstead and DeForest Buckner that few others saw.

They did whiff on some recruits. I think your theory of them not having the balls to determine who was slow and a pussy was the main cause. I’ll be sure to forward that on to the AD, I want to make sure they tested Lanning’s balls for skill in scouting WR speed.

Talking out of your ass or some weird whoosh? By few others maybe you mean everybody.

Armstead was a 5 star recruit and Buckner was a top 300 4 star guy.