Will the Pacers ever learn?

[[Deleted User]]

"If you look at the stat sheet, we out played them. They got some home cooking and lived at the free throw line"- Paul George.

Seriously you are down 3-1 just STFU and play ball. Indiana just isn't ready for primetime. Where was George bitching about home cooking during game one?

From this latest FS comments to Stephenson's comments about Wade then Lebron there is ZERO leadership on that team.

I couldn't ever picture Miami, the Spurs, shit even OKC making one bulletin board statement after another. Great teams/great players feed off that shit. They take any tiny slight and use it to burn them.

Most of us are Seahawks fans in here and just look at how they take any slight against them.

 

[Tequilla]

14 to 5 in turnovers says that the stat line wasn't the same.

Same with the free throw line.

 

[[Deleted User]]

Did at any point in that game did it feel like the Pacers were going to win? The answer is no. Miami took the lead early and didn't look back.

To blame the refs is fucking stupid. Miami didn't blame the refs after game one but they are a championship team.

Pacers are pretenders. That's the difference. Fans can bitch about refs that's what fans do, when players and coaches start doing it especially in this circumstance you come off as a whiny cunt.

 

[Tequilla]

They have pieces but the leadership isn't there starting with Vogel.

I love David West's game and toughness but he bitches more than any leader should bitch - particularly when your next 2 best players are still young.

I think George's heart is in the right spot. In a lot of ways, the differences between these teams isn't that big. But right now, the small details of the game Indiana's getting killed in (rotation shuffles, ending quarters, adjustments).

Indiana should have been using the Scola/West combo earlier in this series once they saw how Miami was forcing traps and allowing rotations to go to non-scorers. Both of those guys as bigs are capable of scoring and leaves 5 capable scorers on the court which neutralizes Miami's ability to get away with some of their traps and rotations. When a fucktarded FS person like me can see that, you start wondering what Frank Vogel is sitting there staring at blankly.

 

[haie]

I think people are just reaching for any team that looks like they could beat the Heat. Personally I'm glad they they will probably 3-peat. Who gives a fuck how your team was assembled?

 

[[Deleted User]]

They have pieces but the leadership isn't there starting with Vogel.

I love David West's game and toughness but he bitches more than any leader should bitch - particularly when your next 2 best players are still young.

I think George's heart is in the right spot. In a lot of ways, the differences between these teams isn't that big. But right now, the small details of the game Indiana's getting killed in (rotation shuffles, ending quarters, adjustments).

Indiana should have been using the Scola/West combo earlier in this series once they saw how Miami was forcing traps and allowing rotations to go to non-scorers. Both of those guys as bigs are capable of scoring and leaves 5 capable scorers on the court which neutralizes Miami's ability to get away with some of their traps and rotations. When a fucktarded FS person like me can see that, you start wondering what Frank Vogel is sitting there staring at blankly.

The same Scola who was a liability in game two and basically changed the game by being out there?

As for George blaming the refs is dumb. Like you said biggest thing in this series is closing out quarters. Miami has done a great job of closing out quarters.

That is how Miami plays though they are a team who has three large runs a game. The key is making sure you counter with a run of your own and making sure that run is like an 8-0 run and not some giant ass run. That is why the Spurs-Heat series was so fun last year and will be this year. That will be constant game of big runs.

 

[[Deleted User]]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

 

[dnc]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

Totally agree on Vogel. I don't see him as a great coach like I once did but I still think he's well above average. You're probably right he never wins a title though.

I'd put Thibodeau in that same category.

 

[haie]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

One of my buddies said it was rumored George fucked his wife sometime during the season, take it for what it's worth.

 

[[Deleted User]]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

Totally agree on Vogel. I don't see him as a great coach like I once did but I still think he's well above average. You're probably right he never wins a title though.

I'd put Thibodeau in that same category.

I think Thibs is a different category because those coaches I mention always seem to get fired. While Thibs for whatever reason everyone acts like he's this great coach despite mediocre results. He's to the NBA what Jeff Fisher is the NFL or what Mike Riley is to the Pac-12(Hi iDawg!).

They are considered great because they "do more with less" although ultimately it's still not much.

 

[dnc]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

One of my buddies said it was rumored George fucked his wife sometime during the season, take it for what it's worth.

"Attitude reflects leadership, captain."

If that's really true, Paul George deserves to end up on an inept franchise coached by Jim Caldwell.

 

[[Deleted User]]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

One of my buddies said it was rumored George fucked his wife sometime during the season, take it for what it's worth.

Is your buddy Tequilla who thinks Golden Tate fucked Russell Wilson's wife?

Unlike the Tate one I'm willing to believe this rumor. George nose dived for a while too and hasn't looked top 10 status like he did first half. Hibbert struggles has been documented.

FWIW, I typed in on Google "Roy Hibbert wife" and immediately the following in order pop up "Roy Hibbert wife" Roy Hibbert Wife and Paul George" "Roy Hibbert Wife Cheats" "Roy Hibbert Wife Teammate".
https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=roy+hibbert+wife+paul+george&oq=Roy+Hibbert+wife+&gs_l=hp.1.0.0l3j0i22i30.1000.113708.0.115066.20.17.2.1.2.0.171.1916.3j14.17.0....0...1c.1.45.hp..5.15.1266.0.PKLdLxhChHw

A lot of links on this topic. This actually has legs.

 

[dnc]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

Totally agree on Vogel. I don't see him as a great coach like I once did but I still think he's well above average. You're probably right he never wins a title though.

I'd put Thibodeau in that same category.

I think Thibs is a different category because those coaches I mention always seem to get fired. While Thibs for whatever reason everyone acts like he's this great coach despite mediocre results. He's to the NBA what Jeff Fisher is the NFL or what Mike Riley is to the Pac-12(Hi iDawg!).

They are considered great because they "do more with less" although ultimately it's still not much.

He's 205-107 in his career. That's pretty damn impressive IMO, especially considering he coached half those games without Derrick Rose.

He profiles a lot like George Karl to me - great defensive coach who gets stellar regular season results but disappoints in the postseason. But at least in Thibs case he has the "didn't have my best player for three of my four playoff losses" defense.

Honestly if I had to take one or the other I'd take Thibodeau over Vogel. Again, I don't think he's a championship coach, but I think he's a guy who can take you pretty far if you give him a decent roster.

 

[doogsinparadise]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

Totally agree on Vogel. I don't see him as a great coach like I once did but I still think he's well above average. You're probably right he never wins a title though.

I'd put Thibodeau in that same category.

I think Thibs is a different category because those coaches I mention always seem to get fired. While Thibs for whatever reason everyone acts like he's this great coach despite mediocre results. He's to the NBA what Jeff Fisher is the NFL or what Mike Riley is to the Pac-12(Hi iDawg!).

They are considered great because they "do more with less" although ultimately it's still not much.

Thibs has gotten hardcore boned by the Derrick Rose injuries, otherwise probably would have made a Finals appearance, and a couple Eastern Finals. Like DNC wrote, the dude wins games, and without a top 10 guy (outside of Rose).

Also, Chicago's pretty cheap. Sound familiar?

 

[[Deleted User]]

Tequilla I think you are being a bit too critical of Vogel too. He hasn't coached a great series, I think he might end up taking the blame as he's lost his team as well.

However, I don't think he's a bad coach. Like Scott Brooks I can say with confidence after OKC finally fires his ass(if ever they are so cheap) he'll bomb at his next job.

I can see Vogel being a Don Nelson, George Karl type where he never wins a title but makes several deep runs in the postseason with several different franchises. Even though he ended up winning a title Larry Brown is in that tier too.

I'm curious what happened to Roy Hibbert. SOMETHING happened to him off the court for him to be this way. I can't remember an All-Star during his All-Star season having this many 0 point outings during the postseason.

Totally agree on Vogel. I don't see him as a great coach like I once did but I still think he's well above average. You're probably right he never wins a title though.

I'd put Thibodeau in that same category.

I think Thibs is a different category because those coaches I mention always seem to get fired. While Thibs for whatever reason everyone acts like he's this great coach despite mediocre results. He's to the NBA what Jeff Fisher is the NFL or what Mike Riley is to the Pac-12(Hi iDawg!).

They are considered great because they "do more with less" although ultimately it's still not much.

Thibs has gotten hardcore boned by the Derrick Rose injuries, otherwise probably would have made a Finals appearance, and a couple Eastern Finals. Like DNC wrote, the dude wins games, and without a top 10 guy (outside of Rose).

Also, Chicago's pretty cheap. Sound familiar?

Disagree on a healthy Derrick Rose team beating any of these three Miami teams. Just don't see it. That was probably the worst of the four Miami teams too and they took care of them in five.

 

[[Deleted User]]

BTW the Pacers have shot 94 FT's, Heat 87.

I'm a conspiracy guy as I've proven on here already.

This isn't Kings-Lakers 2002 or Sonics-Suns 1993. This is Miami-Chicago 2011 which is what I said immediately on here after game one.

As for the Heat-Pacers "rivalry" it's not a rivalry if one side never wins. This is like Lakers-Blazers when the Lakers ended the Blazers season five out of six years from 1997-2002, four of which were at the Rose Garden. We all remember the one at Staples though.

 

[Tequilla]

The thing that worries me about Vogel, and what would give me pause if I was another team going to hire him in the future, would be that he lost this team for the most part. They went from being without question one of the Top 5 teams in the league to a team that you had no clue what you were going to get night in and night out.

I think it's clear watching them play that George wants to play up tempo and you can't do that with Hibbert in place. There's got to be a move there and George is the face of the franchise going forward.

Stephenson will be interesting to see what happens with him.

 

[Tequilla]

There's no question that Scola was brutal in Game 2, but he's been solid in both games in Miami. He offers the ability to stretch the floor as well as score in the post - particularly against Miami's undersized lineups.

Hibbert's been on and off in this series. Manhimi hasn't been terrible, but you can't have just one starter plus Scola in on the 2nd string lineup against Miami. Those units have really hurt the first unit in this series.

My biggest criticism with Vogel is that he just hasn't had a Plan B in place and the ability to adjust on the fly. While I've been very critical of Spolestra, I do give him credit for having an ability to not stay with something that isn't working. He'll keep trying things until he comes up with something that works.

 

[[Deleted User]]

I don't have time to read this thread but I'm still going to chime in. If they really wanted to win the title in the 2-3 year window they have or had Bird should have stepped in like pop did in SA.

 

[[Deleted User]]

There's no question that Scola was brutal in Game 2, but he's been solid in both games in Miami. He offers the ability to stretch the floor as well as score in the post - particularly against Miami's undersized lineups.

Hibbert's been on and off in this series. Manhimi hasn't been terrible, but you can't have just one starter plus Scola in on the 2nd string lineup against Miami. Those units have really hurt the first unit in this series.

My biggest criticism with Vogel is that he just hasn't had a Plan B in place and the ability to adjust on the fly. While I've been very critical of Spolestra, I do give him credit for having an ability to not stay with something that isn't working. He'll keep trying things until he comes up with something that works.

What exactly is there to be critical of? With one more win he's going to be 14-1 in playoff series in the past four seasons.