The only place I remember the date from was in Germany - we were playing war games I was the supply/ration guy and had a driver[/b]. It was in Grafenwehr near the Czech border (still controlled by the Russkies at the time) we were driving around the range area and saw some arches on a hillside, they were entrances into some caves and were dated 1318. That area got bombed to beat shit in WW2 so was surprised to find anything left. Was also in castles and churches in Germany that were old be can't tell you how old.