What happened to the screwball?
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
Fishpo31
Active poster
Good stuff DJ (ILTCHDJ, IWILTD)...The screwball is comped to an opposite-side curveball, break and speed wise. In the early 80's, Frank Viola started throwing a "circle change up", which had most (if not all) of the characteristics of the screwgie, but was easier to teach, learn, and command. The key is more drag (skin) on the ball, decreasing velocity, and throwing "the circle" at the hitter, which creates pronation and produces the arm-side run-sink of the screwball.
Nowadays, it's all about velocity. The traditional curveball that I threw is a dinosaur, because it comes UP out of the hand, and good hitters can see it early. It matched up well with the circle change. It's a four-seam (straight) fastball world, at the top of the zone, and sliders/cutters on to off the plate, with velocity differential of 5-8 mph from the FB. In the day it was a 12-14 mph difference between the FB and curve/changeup.
Guys are throwing power breaking balls at 85-92, keeping their hand more behind the ball than on the side of it, short and sharp as opposed to big and loopy. The slider that I threw, which was pretty damn good (self-gloss POTD), had 4-6" of horizontal break, and about the same tilt...that's a cutter now. It matched up well with a 2-seam, sinking FB, that had the same break/tilt, in the opposite direction.
The plan is to "Tunnel", where you throw sequences of pitches dictated by the location of the previous pitch...EX: FB away for a strike, slider/cutter/ change up to the same spot, with movement and FB arm speed. Felix really had this going in the mid-teens, and at times had only 2-3 mph separation between his FB and change up...
Sorry to nerd-out, but I love this shit...
Nowadays, it's all about velocity. The traditional curveball that I threw is a dinosaur, because it comes UP out of the hand, and good hitters can see it early. It matched up well with the circle change. It's a four-seam (straight) fastball world, at the top of the zone, and sliders/cutters on to off the plate, with velocity differential of 5-8 mph from the FB. In the day it was a 12-14 mph difference between the FB and curve/changeup.
Guys are throwing power breaking balls at 85-92, keeping their hand more behind the ball than on the side of it, short and sharp as opposed to big and loopy. The slider that I threw, which was pretty damn good (self-gloss POTD), had 4-6" of horizontal break, and about the same tilt...that's a cutter now. It matched up well with a 2-seam, sinking FB, that had the same break/tilt, in the opposite direction.
The plan is to "Tunnel", where you throw sequences of pitches dictated by the location of the previous pitch...EX: FB away for a strike, slider/cutter/ change up to the same spot, with movement and FB arm speed. Felix really had this going in the mid-teens, and at times had only 2-3 mph separation between his FB and change up...
Sorry to nerd-out, but I love this shit...
I saw Phil Niekro pitch in the Kingdome in the 1980s
Believe it or not, I remember that game. I would have been 13. Watching it on KSTW Channel 11.
Four years later, Yankees send Jay Buhner to Seattle for Phelps..
greenblood
New Fish
Has the hitting approach to utilizing launch angle impacted this at all?
Fishpo31
Active poster
Yes...Pitchers used to be classified as "East-West" (sinker, slider, change up, horizontal movement) or "North-South" (four seam FB, straight, 12/6 curveball), usually dictated by arm slot. Harder throwers were usually north-south guys.
It is now power vs power, max effort every pitch, combined with ridiculous late horizontal and vertical movement of secondary pitches. Everything looks like a FB out of the hand, and off speed pitches are a lot closer velocity-wise to fastballs than they were 10 years ago. Get to two strikes, and elevate the FB...
The "Art" of pitching is becoming extinct...if you can throw it 95+ with spin rate and have a reasonable facsimile of a breaking pitch, you are in the big leagues. If a guy goes 6 innings, gives up 6 hits and a walk, that used to be pretty good...today, it could mean 5 runs on the board, with three or four jacks. Kids don't learn to pitch today (nor do they want to), they train to throw hard. The hitting side of it is another story...
absolute genius
Damn. You were born around the time of the Kurt Flood ruling establishing free agency.
In the 60’s, baseball players were at the mercy of the owners. I remember in mid-60’s when Koufax and Drysdale held out to make $100,000 apiece.
Earlier, Jackie Robinson retired after the 1956 season when the Brooklyn Dodgers traded him to the to cross-town rival, the New York Giants.
Last edited:
*Curt
Yes I was born the year after Flood's free agency ruling