Thunder Vs. Suns

Doogles

Doogles

Swaye's Wigwam
Swaye's Wigwam
Founder's Club
Westbrook and Bledsoe going back and fourth while talking shit late in the 3rd. Pretty entertaining stuff. It also reinforces for me that Westbrook needs to be on a team where he is "the guy". His personality will never allow him to be a 1B to Durant. He could probably win a MVP if he was given a situation like DRose had in Chicago. Just so fucking impressive athletically.
 
5 of 22 for Westbrook ... yuck.

I love everything about Westbrook from an athletic ability and desire to compete standpoint.

What I hate about Westbrook, and what trumps everything I love about him, is that he often takes everything TOO personal to the point that he gets himself so involved in his corner of the game that he fails to see the bigger picture.

You make an interesting point though about Westbrook vs. Durant. I love how effortlessly Durant is able to score the ball. But when you think about it, Durant is a scorer. He's not a great passer although has improved a bit the last few years. Turns the ball over probably a little too much for the amount of distribution that he provides. Is a relative non-factor when it comes to offensive rebounding. And I don't think I'd consider him as anything more than an average defender. I do think it's a realistic question to ask whether or not Durant's a guy that can be the lead dog to carry a team to a title. Is he perhaps a better version of Carmelo Anthony?

When you think about the lead players that tend to win titles, their influence on the game can be seen across multiple facets. There's no question that when Durant's on fire, the game is over and you can't stop him. But IF he's having an average shooting game, does he bring enough to the table to will his team to win?
 
Westbrook is incredible. He's a killer. Probably a top 5 player. Lol that he doesn't see the bigger picture. Have you seen what he's been doing lately? He played great in the playoffs last year. Don't blame a fucktarded coach on Westbrook.

In the world of now, Durant and Westbrook are considered failures. They are in their mid 20's. Their dumbass team got rid of James Harden. If in three years they still don't have a title it's a different story.

I agree with Doogles that he should have his own team.
 
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I have seen what he has done lately ... another triple double tonight.

But at the same time, are you expecting me to give him huge credit for putting up 39 in (so far) tonight on 12 of 38 shooting?

I think you can make a really strong argument that if Westbrook was leading a team, it may have a higher ceiling than a Durant led team.

You should know that I don't necessarily look at the stats and say that stuffing a box score gets you a cookie. Westbrook has shown time after time an ability to get a bit out of his game in spots and when he does it rarely works out for his team. He's still young. Still has time to learn. And hopefully for him he does learn while he's able to match that knowledge with his insane athletic ability.

You can't honestly sit there and say that the things that I call out on Westbrook aren't holes in his game. And you can't honestly also sit there and try to suggest that just because I call out some of his holes that I'm not saying that he's not a Top 5 or 7 player in the league by any measure and depending on what your measure is, he could be even higher on the list.
 
38 shots is too many. He missed a bunch of decent looks early and I think he took more shots to try and get going. He also took a lot in the 4th when the Thunder needed him to take over.

Too many shots, especially 10 threes, but 16 free throws, 14 rebounds, 11 assists. +4 in +/-. I'm a little biased because he's my favorite player to watch in the league. I'll become a Lakers fan if he goes there in a few years.

Hopefully the Thunder go out early this year so it has a chance of happening. I think they will if they get the 8th and play GS, but if they can get to 7 I could see them reaching the Conference Finals. Playing Memphis is probably a toss up and I think OKC could beat Portland/Houston or whoever else they play in the 2nd round.
 
Westbrook is one of those players you can provoke into abandoning his team. He takes the game very personal and ends up forcing shots he shouldn't. I love his mentality, it's clear cut above Durant's in terms of that "championship competitiveness", but until he learns to get out of his own way he won't get over the hump.

That being said, when you watch him fly through the air with athleticism that makes NBA players look like Jewish middle schoolers, it's hard to fault him for wanting to take it every time.

It's not like Lebron with Cleveland part 1 where the only way they were winning was if LBJ took over. He has pieces to utilize. His legacy as a player depends on learning that.
 
@Doogles did a better job of conveying what I was trying to do ...

I feel like Westbrook is still in a state of mind where he's trying to prove to everybody just how great he is and that he's not just great because he plays with Durant. I do wonder how much of that would go away if they each had their own team. But when you are playing in a way that is trying to prove how great you are, you're fixated on the wrong things. You're busy thinking about points, rebounds, and assists instead of winning the game as your fundamental priority.

Second, and I think this is important, Westbrook can definitely get himself so tied up into duels with other people that if you can goad him into that, you get him playing a 1 on 5 game where he's really trying to do too much on both ends of the floor. He's the definition of a guy that you can pull into a dick measuring contest.

In some ways, his career mirrors a bit of what Kobe went through. 2nd best player on a championship caliber team ... then goes through a phase where it's all about numbers and not necessarily about the wins ... and then eventually matures into a player that is focused on winning titles. While Kobe was definitely an alpha dog in his prime, he also showed tremendous trust and confidence in those that he surrounded himself with in guys like Pau and Derek Fisher. At this point, I don't see that with Westbrook.

You take a game like tonight, Westbrook's athletic ability not only can get himself shots whenever he wants to, but he can also create easy opportunities for others. In some ways, I get that it'd be easy to ask how in the world I'm criticizing him in a game where he had a triple double, but at the same time, could he have turned some of the those missed shots into assists?

During the summer, I'll DVR a fair amount of the NBA's greatest games on NBA TV that often center back to the 80s where you get to watch the brilliance of players like Bird and Magic. Both could absolutely dominate a game without taking a shot for large stretches. Last night, I was watching Game 6 of the '88 Finals. It was a game where in all honesty the Lakers really had no business winning but somehow Magic found a way to get them a win. His line for the game? 5 of 12 from the field, but 22 points and 19 assists. Not suggesting that Westbrook needs to be Magic ... far from it. But the area where I see the biggest opportunity for Westbrook to take the next step is to embrace the concept that less could lead to more. Too often right now he strikes you as an activity over achievement guy. In the long run, that hurts him.

If there's a "PG" that can be the next player to completely dominate the game from that position, it's Westbrook. For as good of a shooter as Steph Curry is, or as good of a floor general CP3 is, neither of those guys could ever come close to winning a title without having a great supporting cast surrounding them.
 
The less is more theory holds a ton of weight. We've been talking about Westbrook, but he wasn't the best PG in the game. Bledsoe was awesome and used savy, body positioning and his teammates to get the WIN.

If Westbrook had played the same style as Bledsoe, the Thunder win going away. Instead Bledsoe and him started jawing and it turned into several possessions of 1 on 1 and then Bledsoe adapted out of it and Westbrook stayed the same.

That was a fun game to watch. Don't write off the Suns, maybe Bledsoe needed the other two guards to leave to start feeling his game, but he was very impressive tonight against the best PG in the game.

 
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One of my favorite things now that I'm in my mid-30s playing basketball against guys that are 10+ years younger is the whole less is more concept. The young kids will never stop moving because they hear that moving without the ball is great but end up running in a circle and always more or less coming back to you while you just stand back and watch. They look at you from the standpoint that you're playing lazy defense ... anybody that knows the game knows that part of playing defense is paying attention to the dangerous offensive option and ignoring the non dangerous option. Going the other way, they'll think you're being lazy by standing on the wing or corner spacing the court. But then they never what hits them you run a backdoor off of them when they get too fixated on the ball or how easy it is for you to create an open look by doing something as simple as pick and pop or give a jab step and lean back a bit in the easy chair.

A great lesson for any young basketball player is that if you can't complete your move within no more than 3 or 4 attacking dribbles, it's probably not going to turn out to be a good move and it's a good idea to give the ball up.
 
The Suns are toast. They needed 12-38 out of Westbrook to win a game at home.

The Suns went on a 10-0 run to open the 4th with Westbrook on the bench. He came back, went crazy and led OKC to OT.
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
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I'm not suggesting that Brooks is a good coach ... because he's not.

But when I look at Westbrook and Durant, I don't necessarily see guys that want to operate in a system.

And a system isn't much more than having a collective identity of what a team is trying to accomplish offensively with respect to motion, spacing, and who/where shots are desired to come from. The OKC system for the most part is utilizing the strengths of both Durant and Westbrook (almost impossible to stop 1 on 1) and try to put them in positions to be the most successful doing that.

If you missed it, Kenny Smith had a really good breakdown last night during halftime of the Warriors and Cavs game about the differences between the offenses that the teams employ. Cleveland is all about getting LBJ and Irving in certain positions on the court and then allowing them to operate on a 1 on 1 basis. Golden State is much more about spacing, ball movement, and creating easy shots through their movements. Generally speaking, the latter is the more sustainable and stable system. But if you have the horses, the former can work quite well but is definitely not for everybody.
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
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38 is too many, but there is context.

1. Durant is out.

2. Westbrook started 1-12. He can't stop shooting because the Thunder are built on him being aggressive, especially without Durant.

3. He took 14 shots in the 4th quarter when the Thunder went down 10 with him on the bench. He took some more in OT. They tied the game by the end. I would say they needed those shots.

4. Ossai

5. Time of possession

These reasons are why I think the Thunder lose rather easily in OT, say 114-110.
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
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38 is too many, but there is context.

1. Durant is out.

2. Westbrook started 1-12. He can't stop shooting because the Thunder are built on him being aggressive, especially without Durant.

3. He took 14 shots in the 4th quarter when the Thunder went down 10 with him on the bench. He took some more in OT. They tied the game by the end. I would say they needed those shots.

4. Ossai

5. Time of possession

These reasons are why I think the Thunder lose rather easily in OT, say 114-110.
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Trying way too hard
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
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38 is too many, but there is context.

1. Durant is out.

2. Westbrook started 1-12. He can't stop shooting because the Thunder are built on him being aggressive, especially without Durant.

3. He took 14 shots in the 4th quarter when the Thunder went down 10 with him on the bench. He took some more in OT. They tied the game by the end. I would say they needed those shots.

4. Ossai

5. Time of possession

These reasons are why I think the Thunder lose rather easily in OT, say 114-110.
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Trying way too hard
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Trying too hard to do what?
 
Clearly Ossai is a much bigger factor than you are giving him credit for. 4th on a list of 5? Prioritize the list correctly or GTFO.
 
What you guys are missing is that OKC has no offensive system and Durant and Westbrook have been the only guys that can get their own shots on that team since Harden left. 38 isn't too many shots from Westbrook when Durant is out. Who the fuck else do you think is going to shoot the ball.
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He's the PG. That's too many. Blame Presto or Presti for not surrounding those two with talent and letting Hard-on go. You can't win consistently like that.
 
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