The NYT "Greatest Songwriters" List is an Absolute Disaster
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
Has the Tug taught us nothing but the fact that the NYT is a rag? Rick Beato is his own AI
Claude agrees that Jimmy Webb's omission is criminal. Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks should make the cut. Who the FUCK is Young Thug?!?
The biggest omission, in my view: Joni Mitchell. Yes, she's Canadian-born, which technically disqualifies her — but if we're being honest about influence on American songwriting, leaving her off any "greatest living songwriters" conversation feels like cheating. So setting her aside on the technicality, here are the real snubs:
Randy Newman. This is the one that actually offends me. Sardonic, novelistic, harmonically sophisticated, half a century of work from "Sail Away" to "I Love L.A." to the Pixar catalog. The fact that Diane Warren and Stephin Merritt made it but Newman didn't is genuinely strange.
Tom Waits. A complete original — there is no Tom Waits adjacent songwriter. Bone Machine, Rain Dogs, Mule Variations. If "weird geniuses" was actually part of the criteria as the NYT claimed, his absence undermines the methodology.
Prince's collaborators aside, where's Stevie Nicks? Inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as a solo artist (the first woman to be inducted twice). "Landslide," "Dreams," "Rhiannon," "Edge of Seventeen" — that's a murderer's row, and she's still touring.
Patti Smith. "Because the Night," "People Have the Power," and an entire body of work that fused poetry and rock more credibly than almost anyone.
John Fogerty. The amount of American songbook he produced in about four years with CCR is absurd. "Proud Mary," "Fortunate Son," "Have You Ever Seen the Rain," "Bad Moon Rising." Pure American writing.
Rivers Cuomo / Jeff Tweedy / Aimee Mann — for the "under-loved influences" bucket they claimed to care about.
And one wildcard: Burt Bacharach died in 2023, so he's correctly out — but his partner Hal David is also gone. Fine. But how is Jimmy Webb ("Wichita Lineman," "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," "MacArthur Park," "Galveston") not on this list? That one's probably my single biggest head-scratcher after Newman.
Good question — there's a deep bench. Here's who I'd put in the "serious contenders" pile, grouped by lane:
Singer-songwriter / Americana
Claude agrees that Jimmy Webb's omission is criminal. Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks should make the cut. Who the FUCK is Young Thug?!?
The biggest omission, in my view: Joni Mitchell. Yes, she's Canadian-born, which technically disqualifies her — but if we're being honest about influence on American songwriting, leaving her off any "greatest living songwriters" conversation feels like cheating. So setting her aside on the technicality, here are the real snubs:
Randy Newman. This is the one that actually offends me. Sardonic, novelistic, harmonically sophisticated, half a century of work from "Sail Away" to "I Love L.A." to the Pixar catalog. The fact that Diane Warren and Stephin Merritt made it but Newman didn't is genuinely strange.
Tom Waits. A complete original — there is no Tom Waits adjacent songwriter. Bone Machine, Rain Dogs, Mule Variations. If "weird geniuses" was actually part of the criteria as the NYT claimed, his absence undermines the methodology.
Prince's collaborators aside, where's Stevie Nicks? Inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as a solo artist (the first woman to be inducted twice). "Landslide," "Dreams," "Rhiannon," "Edge of Seventeen" — that's a murderer's row, and she's still touring.
Patti Smith. "Because the Night," "People Have the Power," and an entire body of work that fused poetry and rock more credibly than almost anyone.
John Fogerty. The amount of American songbook he produced in about four years with CCR is absurd. "Proud Mary," "Fortunate Son," "Have You Ever Seen the Rain," "Bad Moon Rising." Pure American writing.
Rivers Cuomo / Jeff Tweedy / Aimee Mann — for the "under-loved influences" bucket they claimed to care about.
And one wildcard: Burt Bacharach died in 2023, so he's correctly out — but his partner Hal David is also gone. Fine. But how is Jimmy Webb ("Wichita Lineman," "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," "MacArthur Park," "Galveston") not on this list? That one's probably my single biggest head-scratcher after Newman.
Good question — there's a deep bench. Here's who I'd put in the "serious contenders" pile, grouped by lane:
Singer-songwriter / Americana
- James Taylor
- Jackson Browne
- Neil Young (Canadian, same caveat as Joni)
- Don Henley / Glenn Frey territory — Henley still living
- Emmylou Harris
- Rosanne Cash
- John Prine — died 2020, out
- Steve Earle
- Lyle Lovett
- Rodney Crowell
- Billy Joel
- Tom Petty — died 2017, out
- Bob Seger
- Don McLean
- Patti Smith (mentioned earlier)
- Chrissie Hynde
- Michael Stipe / Peter Buck (R.E.M.)
- Eddie Vedder
- Kim Gordon / Thurston Moore
- Trent Reznor
- David Byrne (Scottish-born, raised American — judgment call)
- Sly Stone — died 2025, out
- George Clinton
- Bill Withers — died 2020, out
- Mavis Staples (more interpreter than writer, but still)
- D'Angelo
- Erykah Badu
- Frank Ocean
- Solange
- Beyoncé (increasingly a credible writer)
- Bruno Mars
- Andre 3000 (Outkast made it, but he deserves individual consideration)
- Nas
- Eminem
- Lauryn Hill
- Q-Tip
- Chuck D
- Rakim
- Pharrell
- Lil Wayne
- Drake (Canadian)
- Kris Kristofferson — died 2024, out
- Loretta Lynn — died 2022, out
- Merle Haggard — died 2016, out
- Rodney Crowell
- Miranda Lambert
- Chris Stapleton
- Jason Isbell — probably the most acclaimed working country/Americana writer under 50
- Kacey Musgraves
- Hayes Carll
- Jimmy Webb (the omission I flagged)
- Burt Bacharach — died 2023, out
- Carly Simon
- Carole Bayer Sager
- Allee Willis — died 2019, out
- Desmond Child
- Max Martin (Swedish, but writes the American pop songbook now)
- Jack Antonoff
- Aimee Mann
- Sufjan Stevens
- Paul Westerberg
- Bob Mould
- Kim Deal
- Kathleen Hanna
- Stephen Malkmus
- Jeff Mangum
- Jeff Tweedy
- Conor Oberst
- Will Oldham
- Phil Elverum
- Mark Kozelek (controversial figure, but a writer)
- Stephen Sondheim — died 2021, out
- Lin-Manuel Miranda
- Jeanine Tesori
- Jason Robert Brown
- Tom Waits (mentioned)
- Randy Newman (mentioned)
- Rickie Lee Jones
- Donald Fagen (Steely Dan)
- Van Dyke Parks
- Laurie Anderson
- Rubén Blades (Panamanian, but enormous American footprint)
- Gloria Estefan
- Marc Anthony
- Juan Luis Guerra (Dominican)
Thanks Taft!