Texas Recruiting - WAM Appetizer

[FremontTroll]

The question always comes down to what the cost is

The argument against recruiting Texas is that we can be doing better in California. But who in California are we really missing on?

I get all the arguments but the reality is that culture and fit matter a lot to this staff. Those that receive what we are about will gravitate towards us. Those that don’t wont.

Ultimately the key in Texas is gaining traction. Getting a player like Levi is huge. As the Texas players on our roster produce and get to the league our reputation will only further grow there.

Until there’s tangible evidence that our efforts in Texas are wasted, then it’s a worthwhile INVESTMENT for the program to make if they deem that they have the resources to devote to it[/b]

Lots of twisting out here.

In any organization the person pitching the new INVESTMENT must prove its worthwhile not vice versa. What are they teaching at TCU these days?

In terms of resources it isn't about the money. Its about the coaches' time.

Especially those coaches that aren't as successful on the recruiting front and may suffer the most with less time to devote to their west coast targets.

The position where we have by far the most disproportionate percentage of offers out in Texas the next two classes? RB.

The same position where our highest rated and most nationally coveted target supposedly wasn't hearing much from UW.

 

[FremontTroll]

The question always comes down to what the cost is

The argument against recruiting Texas is that we can be doing better in California. But who in California are we really missing on?

I get all the arguments but the reality is that culture and fit matter a lot to this staff. Those that receive what we are about will gravitate towards us. Those that don’t wont.

Ultimately the key in Texas is gaining traction. Getting a player like Levi is huge. As the Texas players on our roster produce and get to the league our reputation will only further grow there.

Until there’s tangible evidence that our efforts in Texas are wasted, then it’s a worthwhile INVESTMENT for the program to make if they deem that they have the resources to devote to it

Yeah I don't get the argument that resources are wasted by recruiting Texas. Take LSU. People should say that they are wasting resources by recruiting California and Utah. Two non-traditional areas for them. But that has resulted in them getting Elias Ricks and Siaki Ika the last two cycles.[/b] Yes Orgeron has connections in Cali but Petersen has the same connections in Texas as he has been recruiting there forever. Also if UW continues to be nationally relevant that exposure does some of the initial footwork needed to get the attention of Texas recruits. People make it sound like it's some kind of big time allocation devoted to Texas when it's just not true. If it's 5% of your recruiting allocation time and you pull 1 out of 20 kids in a recruiting cycle that sounds okay to me. And as you get better the quality of that 1 recruit also gets better.

Except those are elite talents of which there are few in the nation. UW isn't going after kids like that in Texas. They are recruiting mostly "diamonds in the rough" or guys who are overlooked etc.

Also everyone wants to play in the SEC right now and LSU is one of the premier SEC programs.

Like I was saying- if UW wins a playoff game this year and Eason is drafted top 5- then we may be able to get to that echelon where we can beat Texas and Oklahoma for some guys in their own region.

But if that happens its due to our emergence as a national program it has almost nothing to do with all the time we've spent there the last 6 years.

 

[backthepack]

We are going to get Banks lol.

 

[Houhusky]

The question always comes down to what the cost is

The argument against recruiting Texas is that we can be doing better in California. But who in California are we really missing on?

I get all the arguments but the reality is that culture and fit matter a lot to this staff. Those that receive what we are about will gravitate towards us. Those that don’t wont.

Ultimately the key in Texas is gaining traction. Getting a player like Levi is huge. As the Texas players on our roster produce and get to the league our reputation will only further grow there.

Until there’s tangible evidence that our efforts in Texas are wasted, then it’s a worthwhile INVESTMENT for the program to make if they deem that they have the resources to devote to it

Yeah I don't get the argument that resources are wasted by recruiting Texas. Take LSU. People should say that they are wasting resources by recruiting California and Utah. Two non-traditional areas for them. But that has resulted in them getting Elias Ricks and Siaki Ika the last two cycles. Yes Orgeron has connections in Cali but Petersen has the same connections in Texas as he has been recruiting there forever. Also if UW continues to be nationally relevant that exposure does some of the initial footwork needed to get the attention of Texas recruits. People make it sound like it's some kind of big time allocation devoted to Texas when it's just not true. If it's 5% of your recruiting allocation time and you pull 1 out of 20 kids in a recruiting cycle that sounds okay to me. And as you get better the quality of that 1 recruit also gets better.

UW brand isnt LSU brand
UW isnt in the SEC
UW isnt in the South
UW doesnt play bag games

When LSU calls every recruit in the country knows who it is, knows their mascot, there school colors. When "Washington" calls most people are thinking about Trump/DC or call it Washington University, or Huskie or some other dumbshit.

To say that because LSU or some SEC school can grab recruits from California therefore UW (or pac12) schools should be able to go into the south and win recruiting battles with similar ease has no baring in reality. I cannot express to you how different football is treated in the South than it is in Southern California. There are plenty of recruits all around the country that say "I want to play in the SEC".... How many big time recruits from the South would ever say "I want to play in the Pac12"?

Your California examples like Elias Rick just prove the point though, why waste resources at all in Texas (south) when Southern California is ripe for the picking and UW is currently the premiere program on the west coast? Why go to Texas to compete against LSU, UT, TAMU, Oklahoma, Alabama, Georgia, etc for a same or lessor recruit that has no idea who UW even is when players like Ricks or Smalls are sitting in our region that we should be dominating?

Recruit outside of your region when you cant find a recruit you need within it.

 

[UW_Doog_Bot]

Here's what UW has pulled out of Texas in SIX YEARS of recruiting after scouting, researching, and evaluating 103 players. You know, because Washington is "selective" when finding "OKG's".



On average it is the bottom end depth of our class. The exception is obviously Levi but even counting him the average is low. Remove him and it looks even worse.

So there's essentially three arguments people are making.

1) We need these players for depth.

No, there are lots of players in our natural geographic footprint that we already recruit in that are "replacement" level(.8488 average) bottom end depth that we are passing on. This includes the state of Washington which has caused grumblings from the natives and which takes the LEAST amount of opportunity cost to recruit and lock up.

2) There's little opportunity cost to us recruiting Texas. We might as well do it.

This is a hilariously bad take. Are recruiting schedules intense? Are coaches' times valuable? If the answer to either of questions is "no" then fucking fire the coach. Every trip taken to Texas is a trip not taken to Utah, Arizona, California, Oregon, etc. and often times because of the distance is worth two of the others.

3) They are laying a foundation for future recruiting in Texas.

By the coaches own admission this isn't how they view it at this point. The foundation needed to recruit ELITE talent is winning on the national stage which will naturally lead to in-roads. This is why Clemson can recruit ELITE guys out of California. "Come play for Championships". The coaches have admitted they are looking for 1-2 guys to fill out depth and aren't swinging for big time players.

Everyone that tries to lambaste criticism of the "Texas strategy" as some lemming narrative can eat a giant pile of dicks. There's legitimate reasons to criticize this strategy and if you can't see them after this article then I suggest you drink bleach because there's no fucking hope for you.

 

[ntxduck]

UW (or any Pac 12 team except USC when they are not shit) isn't going to be beat Texas, Aggie, or OU for top Texas kids. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth recruiting. There is so much talent in Texas that there are a ton of kids who fly under the radar. UW has excellent coaches--the best in the conference (IMHO) who can identify that type of talent. That is why they are in Texas.

The 2 best Texas kids chip pulled out of Oregon (LMJ and Huff) had offers from Minnesota/TCU (LMJ) and Buffalo/Colorado (Huff).

 

[Ballz]

There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).

 

[FremontTroll]

There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one.[/b] They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).

LOL sure in Ballz' fantasy reality where we never miss on kids then of course you can be 100% certain we wouldn't have better results in a different hypothetical universe.

What might be even more unbelievable is you are using a sample size of 6 players, 2 of which have actually played, to say that Texas kids "just know how to play the game" so they won't be busts.

 

[UW_Doog_Bot]

There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one.[/b] They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).

LOL sure in Ballz' fantasy reality where we never miss on kids then of course you can be 100% certain we wouldn't have better results in a different hypothetical universe.

What might be even more unbelievable is you are using a sample size of 6 players, 2 of which have actually played, to say that Texas kids "just know how to play the game" so they won't be busts.

Those are six completely irreplaceable "hidden gems" though. There's not a single recruit in any of the West that could have served as a replacement for any of them.

 

[dnc]

We are going to get Banks lol.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

 

[Houhusky]

Glad you could bring the AIDS to what is a decent thread.

There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas.

Every single recruit out West that UW wanted and missed on was because they are "making an investment" recruiting Texas. Every single one. They clearly do not have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas.... Damn its fun to make both wrong, overly definitive, and impossible to prove/disprove statements... Now I get it.

If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

"hidden gems" is this NCAA 14 or something?

Filling out an opening or two in the bottom of the class with high ceiling/low cost recruit is fine. Its extremely difficult in a state like Texas because you either have to spend a lot of resources finding that overlooked "gem" that every other schools in the country somehow missed (because everyone looks at Texas) OR you have to recruit directly against a school with a massive recruiting advantage.

 

[whuggy]

I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me. I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

 

[whuggy]

UW (or any Pac 12 team except USC when they are not shit) isn't going to be beat Texas, Aggie, or OU for top Texas kids. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth recruiting. There is so much talent in Texas that there are a ton of kids who fly under the radar. UW has excellent coaches--the best in the conference (IMHO) who can identify that type of talent. That is why they are in Texas.

The 2 best Texas kids chip pulled out of Oregon (LMJ and Huff) had offers from Minnesota/TCU (LMJ) and Buffalo/Colorado (Huff).

Bingo.

 

[FremontTroll]

I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me.[/b] I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.

 

[whuggy]

I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me.[/b] I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.

Well I don't know how else to explain it other than the staff feels the time spent there is worth the payoff. I assume Petersen who is a pretty analytical nuts and bolts type would recognize the risk and reward ratio to Texas recruiting. I really would like someone to definitely prove to me which elite California kids we missed on this year due to not spending enough time in Cali. I think it's way more a function of the coach recruiting them that caused the disinterest rather than lack of face time.

 

[whuggy]

And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

 

[dnc]

I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me.[/b] I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.

Well I don't know how else to explain it other than the staff feels the time spent there is worth the payoff. I assume Petersen who is a pretty analytical nuts and bolts type would recognize the risk and reward ratio to Texas recruiting. I really would like someone to definitely prove to me which elite California kids we missed on this year due to not spending enough time in Cali.[/b] I think it's way more a function of the coach recruiting them that caused the disinterest rather than lack of face time.

No one will ever be able to definitely prove that. There are a massive number of variables in recruiting. No one can say definitely "if we had spent more time recruiting recruit X he would have come here". We can theorize and speculate but never prove anything definitely.

All any of this is is theory. But the theory that "time spent recruiting someone increases your likelihood of getting them" is pretty well accepted.

 

[FremontTroll]

And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.

 

[whuggy]

And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.

You glossed over my main point. We have four coaches who could be living at recruit's houses in Cali and get shit results. You can keep sending a shitty salesman to a business every day but there won't be a sale. Time is the secondary issue here. Sending Adams Malloe Huff and Lake 5% of the time to Texas would probably be as effective as sending Gregory K Papoa and Bhonopha 100% of the time to Cali.

 

[FremontTroll]

And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.

You glossed over my main point. We have four coaches who could be living at recruit's houses in Cali and get shit results. You can keep sending a shitty salesman to a business every day but there won't be a sale. Time is the secondary issue here. Sending Adams Malloe Huff and Lake 5% of the time to Texas would probably be as effective as sending Gregory K Papoa and Bhonopha 100% of the time to Cali.

No, I just totally disagree with it. We aren't employing basement dwelling keyboard jockeys who are somewhere on the spectrum.

These guys all know how to relate to players. Some better than others and yes some are killer closers and some aren't but recruiting these kids and their families is largely about putting the time in and forming relationships.

Some coaches love the pursuit and get after it all day every day. Some view it as secondary to the actual coaching part of the job.

If you don't love recruiting then applying your time efficiently is absolutely crucial.