Some WA State Teachers Are Striking

In Oregon, a five year middle school teacher makes about $45k year. Yes with summers off, but even if they teach summer school, you are looking at $60k. Good money, but not overwhelming considering they now have to have master degrees in order to be hired, so the salary isn't as great when you have to pay off the $40k in student debt.

I wouldn't make it five days as a teacher. Mostly, because many low income families treat school like government paid day care. What Johnny gets taught at school won't help him squat if his parents aren't there to help him apply it, or even provide some sort of parenting that teaches the kid responsibility. A lot of these kids go to school for 7 hours, dick around, then get home and play video games for the next 7-10 hours before bed. The parents aren't there to make sure homework is done, or even make sure the kid reads a damn comic book.

There are some middle and high school teachers that have to deal with kids that read at a first grade level. And now that schools try to use inclusion (putting high level kids and low level kids in the same classroom) Teachers have a whole new problem. How do you teach Johnny who reads at a first grade level, but not dumb it down enough that the high level kids also have to read "Cat in the Hat"?

Teachers deal with a lot of crap that most people would consider their greatest nightmare.
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This post makes too much sense.
 
No big deal, I am an entrepreneur and run my own business. My customers are my bosses but if I keep them happy, I can largely pick my own hours and do work whenever I want. Of course, the greater the risk, the greater the reward (time, money, and lifestyle). If my customers dry up, I'm stuck with inventory (and a mortgage) so I could go out of business in a matter of months if I can't sell.

I have to imagine that that the salary schedule is very general and there are ways around it, especially if one has been in the system awhile and knows how to game it. Anyway, the published numbers of her specific compensation package are more likely correct than a general schedule.

Returning to risk vs. reward, it is also absurd that someone in such a low risk job (teachers rarely get fired, even in a recession) merits such excessive compensation. Some people work year round and finally reach $130k in total pay yet can be laid-off in an instance if the economy tanks.

It used to be that public sector jobs used to offer tremendous stability and good benefits in return for lower pay. As the public sector unions have grown outsized in political influence, the pay is now excessive, the benefits have gone from good to great, and they still have the tremendous stability. Of course to pay for it, they raise taxes on people in the private sector...the ones with the tenuous job stability, the same pay for 12 months of work, and 401ks and higher co-pays instead of guaranteed pensions and low (or no) co-pays.

As Bill Gates might say, IT DOES NOT COMPUTE@!!#@!@!@

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high.
http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/...ificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf
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From 2009-2010 Oregon actually let go about 20% of teachers. Last year was the first year since 2008 the majority of districts actually added staff. Oregon may be different than Washington, but I'll tell you the biggest issue isn't the teachers, it's mostly the administration and the union. Many teachers actually disagree with what most of the union does, but as a required member of said union, they really can't do anything about it. Except for voting in new reps. Kind of like how us citizen vote in a competent congress......good luck with that.

There are a lot of good teachers out there and a lot of bad ones. Unfortunately, the union mainly supports the teachers that shouldn't be supported, because the hard working, good work ethics teachers don't need a union. Like most unions, the teacher union governs through the notion of senority rules. So if you are a language arts teacher of 20 years, and spend 3/4 of the year showing "The Lion King", "Beauty and the Beast", "Babe", etc. in class you're still higher on the totem pole than a honest hardworking teacher 5 years in.

I strongly encourage you all to watch the movie "Waiting for Superman". It basically shows mostly everything that is wrong with our education system.

The hardworking teachers earn what they get paid. It's the other half that abuse the union system and milk off the backs of others, with the support of a union the makes it as difficult as possible to fix.
 
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When I was a Senior in high school, my school offed to pay me 5 bones a day to tutor a group of 6 freshman paste-eaters who were failing, instead of taking one of my early-outs.

I agreed because 25 bones a week paid for beer.

At the end of the first quarter, the little donkeys were ALL getting better than C's in their classes - an increase of 2 full grade points. It's because they weren't stupid, their teachers were just fuckheads that failed to get through to them.

One Friday afternoon, I let the them bail out 5 minutes early to get on their way. Some administrator jackass saw them going across campus, and the following Monday I was called to the office. They said that because I had let these kids out early, they'd have to terminate my employment. I laughed right at the counselor's face and asked if they thought it was any skin off my ass if these kids went back to failing all their classes in spite of the 25K a year the school district was spending to educate them - and failing - when I was doing a better job for 25 bucks a week.

I went back to taking 2 early-out and buying my own beer and those kids likely went back to failing.

Since then, I still vote for school levies, but know that schools are doomed to fail because the administrators that operate them are complete fucktards, and no matter how good the teachers are - and most of them aren't - the kids are not going to get a good education no matter how many dollars rain down on them.

Of course, the senior leadership at my company are all fucktards, too, but at least we don;t ask the public for more money every year to continue being shitheads. Every so often, the stockholders demand that the fucktards' heads roll, and we get a new group of fuckin' idiots who find new ways to kill sales and not get the job done..............but it's never public money we piss away.

And THAT is the difference. You want to piss money away? Then piss away your own fuckin' money. Why I still vote for levies is beyond me. Too much alcohol abuse, I imagine.
 
When I was a Senior in high school, my school offed to pay me 5 bones a day to tutor a group of 6 freshman paste-eaters who were failing, instead of taking one of my early-outs.

I agreed because 25 bones a week paid for beer.

At the end of the first quarter, the little donkeys were ALL getting better than C's in their classes - an increase of 2 full grade points. It's because they weren't stupid, their teachers were just fuckheads that failed to get through to them.

One Friday afternoon, I let the them bail out 5 minutes early to get on their way. Some administrator jackass saw them going across campus, and the following Monday I was called to the office. They said that because I had let these kids out early, they'd have to terminate my employment. I laughed right at the counselor's face and asked if they thought it was any skin off my ass if these kids went back to failing all their classes in spite of the 25K a year the school district was spending to educate them - and failing - when I was doing a better job for 25 bucks a week.

I went back to taking 2 early-out and buying my own beer and those kids likely went back to failing.

Since then, I still vote for school levies, but know that schools are doomed to fail because the administrators that operate them are complete fucktards, and no matter how good the teachers are - and most of them aren't - the kids are not going to get a good education no matter how many dollars rain down on them.

Of course, the senior leadership at my company are all fucktards, too, but at least we don;t ask the public for more money every year to continue being shitheads. Every so often, the stockholders demand that the fucktards' heads roll, and we get a new group of fuckin' idiots who find new ways to kill sales and not get the job done..............but it's never public money we piss away.

And THAT is the difference. You want to piss money away? Then piss away your own fuckin' money. Why I still vote for levies is beyond me. Too much alcohol abuse, I imagine.
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The bad teachers are bad because they are allowed to be bad. Thank the union. If your boss never held you accountable, and your pay never changed because of performance other than showing up would you be good at your job? I'd dick around like crazy. There are some teacher that don't, which is a shame they have the same pay grade as their incompetent counterparts.
 
It's way easier to teach rich and middle class kids than "at risk" kids. I went to a Seattle area private school for a few years and the education was good. I went to a public HS and It was mixed. In the ghetto classes, it basically sucked, though most of my math teachers did a good job considering. If they were actually allowed to really give consequences, or maybe bring back reform schools, that might help to keep discipline. You right wingers won't like this, but in the countries that score higher, there are more pre-k programs available too, and there's more upward mobility.

Yes, the tenure system and some of the unions are screwed up too.

It's a complex issue and most people would rather blame, watch a documentary, and call it a day instead of digging deeper.
 
It's way easier to teach rich and middle class kids than "at risk" kids. I went to a Seattle area private school for a few years and the education was good. I went to a public HS and It was mixed. In the ghetto classes, it basically sucked, though most of my math teachers did a good job considering. If they were actually allowed to really give consequences, or maybe bring back reform schools, that might help to keep discipline. You right wingers won't like this, but in the countries that score higher, there are more pre-k programs available too, and there's more upward mobility.

Yes, the tenure system and some of the unions are screwed up too.

It's a complex issue and most people would rather blame, watch a documentary, and call it a day instead of digging deeper.
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Sure low income schools do perform worse. But you aren't going to fix it at the school level. Many of these parents are complete deadbeats and frankly use their children as an extra tax deduction or more welfare credits.
 
No big deal, I am an entrepreneur and run my own business. My customers are my bosses but if I keep them happy, I can largely pick my own hours and do work whenever I want. Of course, the greater the risk, the greater the reward (time, money, and lifestyle). If my customers dry up, I'm stuck with inventory (and a mortgage) so I could go out of business in a matter of months if I can't sell.

I have to imagine that that the salary schedule is very general and there are ways around it, especially if one has been in the system awhile and knows how to game it. Anyway, the published numbers of her specific compensation package are more likely correct than a general schedule.

Returning to risk vs. reward, it is also absurd that someone in such a low risk job (teachers rarely get fired, even in a recession) merits such excessive compensation. Some people work year round and finally reach $130k in total pay yet can be laid-off in an instance if the economy tanks.

It used to be that public sector jobs used to offer tremendous stability and good benefits in return for lower pay. As the public sector unions have grown outsized in political influence, the pay is now excessive, the benefits have gone from good to great, and they still have the tremendous stability. Of course to pay for it, they raise taxes on people in the private sector...the ones with the tenuous job stability, the same pay for 12 months of work, and 401ks and higher co-pays instead of guaranteed pensions and low (or no) co-pays.

As Bill Gates might say, IT DOES NOT COMPUTE@!!#@!@!@

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high.
http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/...ificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

From 2009-2010 Oregon actually let go about 20% of teachers. Last year was the first year since 2008 the majority of districts actually added staff. Oregon may be different than Washington, but I'll tell you the biggest issue isn't the teachers, it's mostly the administration and the union. Many teachers actually disagree with what most of the union does, but as a required member of said union, they really can't do anything about it. Except for voting in new reps. Kind of like how us citizen vote in a competent congress......good luck with that.

There are a lot of good teachers out there and a lot of bad ones. Unfortunately, the union mainly supports the teachers that shouldn't be supported, because the hard working, good work ethics teachers don't need a union. Like most unions, the teacher union governs through the notion of senority rules. So if you are a language arts teacher of 20 years, and spend 3/4 of the year showing "The Lion King", "Beauty and the Beast", "Babe", etc. in class you're still higher on the totem pole than a honest hardworking teacher 5 years in.

I strongly encourage you all to watch the movie "Waiting for Superman". It basically shows mostly everything that is wrong with our education system.

The hardworking teachers earn what they get paid. It's the other half that abuse the union system and milk off the backs of others, with the support of a union the makes it as difficult as possible to fix.
Click to expand...

That post is right on the money - between the union and the administrators, the teachers are fucked. The good ones want to get rid of bad teachers and do their job. but the administrators are in a constant state of battle with the union protecting the bad teachers and therefore design policies that hamstring the good teachers.

 
Child care is expensive and its expensive and time consuming. Most parents don't want to quit their their full time job and educate them and properly socialize them into a functioning being in society.

Teachers aren't paid enough and much of their other job duties go well into the night.
 
My kid got a B for scoring 50% on a math test at the Beach. The teacher was shocked to see one of his two dads come in and read her the riot act for the soft bigotry of low expectations. 50% isn't a B in any school.

Parents take a lot of blame but we also have soft headed do gooder teachers who are doing more damage than good by not expecting the best from students
 
My kid got a B for scoring 50% on a math test at the Beach. The teacher was shocked to see one of his two dads come in and read her the riot act for the soft bigotry of low expectations. 50% isn't a B in any school.

Parents take a lot of blame but we also have soft headed do gooder teachers who are doing more damage than good by not expecting the best from students
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I blame you as a parent for sending your kid to Beach.
 
To be fair to those right of center, at least some (if not most) recognize that Pre-K programs start the trend early of teaching people how to fish (self-sufficiency / individualism) rather than growing up wanting to be given fish (sucking on the government teat). Good point about the upward mobility too because that is the key, not the buzzword of inequality. Since everything in life circles back to football, young players on a squad don't care about unequal skills (or salaries in the NFL) as much as the chance to get better and play more (or make more money).

People also made good points about the Administrators and the Unions. It's probably much more likely to find an assistant admin to the deputy principal (who barely, if at all, interacts with children) making $100k+ than it is a teacher. I do think seniority is FS because everything should be based on merit. Steve Ballmer was the longest tenured employee at Microsoft by the time he became CEO but complacency set it as he sought to milk Windows and Office for all it was worth rather than moving more aggressively to put MSFT into the 21st century. Well since it was a private sector company, he was actually beholden to outside influence (shareholders) and it was door.ass.out. The beautiful thing was that the stock then popped 7% and then the M's #2 owner (Chris Larsen, employee #3 or 4 at MSFT) started spending more on the M's (Cano, Cruz).

It's way easier to teach rich and middle class kids than "at risk" kids. I went to a Seattle area private school for a few years and the education was good. I went to a public HS and It was mixed. In the ghetto classes, it basically sucked, though most of my math teachers did a good job considering. If they were actually allowed to really give consequences, or maybe bring back reform schools, that might help to keep discipline. You right wingers won't like this, but in the countries that score higher, there are more pre-k programs available too, and there's more upward mobility.

Yes, the tenure system and some of the unions are screwed up too.

It's a complex issue and most people would rather blame, watch a documentary, and call it a day instead of digging deeper.
Click to expand...

 
M's are spending more because of their new obscene TV contract that ensures them of a positive cash flow regardless of attendance.

also: all day pre-k and kindergarten complete with free breakfast, lunch, after school daycare and snack instill a very strong dependency message at a very young age that is reinforced for years
 
Good points but should we not send kids to pre-k then? Or if we do, only give them food if they pay for it?

M's are spending more because of their new obscene TV contract that ensures them of a positive cash flow regardless of attendance.

also: all day pre-k and kindergarten complete with free breakfast, lunch, after school daycare and snack instill a very strong dependency message at a very young age that is reinforced for years
Click to expand...

 
Good points but should we not send kids to pre-k then? Or if we do, only give them food if they pay for it?

M's are spending more because of their new obscene TV contract that ensures them of a positive cash flow regardless of attendance.

also: all day pre-k and kindergarten complete with free breakfast, lunch, after school daycare and snack instill a very strong dependency message at a very young age that is reinforced for years
Click to expand...
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When did it become my job to pay for some shithead kids food? Fuck him and his worthless parents. You just got free day care so you can lay about and watch more daytime shit tv. Least you can do is use some of your fucking food stamps I pay for to buy a goddamn lunchable. I hate people.
 
Child care is expensive and its expensive and time consuming. Most parents don't want to quit their their full time job and educate them and properly socialize them into a functioning being in society.

Teachers aren't paid enough and much of their other job duties go well into the night.
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Child care is expensive and time consuming. As parents you have a choice. Have one stay at home and be there during the day, or pay up for the child care. Even if you buck up and pay the child care, you still have a responssibility to make sure you instill discipline, manners, and responsibiliy to your child. That's not what daycare and teachers are there for. If a parent doesn't want to sacrifce their time and resources after a hard day to their children, then they probably shouldn't have children.

Teachers are supposed to hold students accountable for their work, but they can only go so far. If mom and dad don't provide structure and consequences at home, the students aren't going to give a shit. If mom and dad let me get away with it, why in the hell do I need to listen to Mr. Smith? is the mentality.

Some of the veteran teachers are bad because they get burned out. Imagine trying to manage a classroom of 36 students that all need attention. Then you have 5 screwups that distract everybody, don't do their homework, and can't read a cereal box let alone write a book report. The parents of these kids say, they'll straighten them up, but never do. Eventually, you fail the kids, but the way the school system is set up now, they don't hold a kid back. So a kid could have 0% in all the classes and still gets bumped up to the seventh grade. This act starts from Pre-K, and when they finally have consequences in high school, the kid just drops out. At that point, does it really matter anymore?

It's unfair to completely blame the parents, but when you child is a class "A" screwup, the teachers didn't put him there. It's like this. If you work at a job and think a coworker is an asshole, then fine, but if you think everyone there are assholes, then maybe you're the asshole.

If your child is failing each grade and with almost every teacher, maybe the teachers aren't the problem.
 
Good points but should we not send kids to pre-k then? Or if we do, only give them food if they pay for it?

M's are spending more because of their new obscene TV contract that ensures them of a positive cash flow regardless of attendance.

also: all day pre-k and kindergarten complete with free breakfast, lunch, after school daycare and snack instill a very strong dependency message at a very young age that is reinforced for years
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Having an educational component to daycare is important. At 4-5 years old most kids should be learning how to feed themselves. Now, if parents have failed in that responsibility, good day are practice would involve this most basic function of self and/cooperative survival. It doesn't matter if the daycare is public/private or subsidized private(most daycare).
 
My kid got a B for scoring 50% on a math test at the Beach. The teacher was shocked to see one of his two dads come in and read her the riot act for the soft bigotry of low expectations. 50% isn't a B in any school.

Parents take a lot of blame but we also have soft headed do gooder teachers who are doing more damage than good by not expecting the best from students
Click to expand...

Sounds like the math teacher understood the value of keeping the kids academically eligible to play.

Not that I would know anything about that...
 
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