Russian Generals dropping like flies

[PurpleThrobber]

Neither the Russians nor the Ukraineans are telling the truth. It’s a propaganda war.

And they're both doing bad shit.

We only see what we're allowed to see.

 

[RaceBannon]

White people fighting white people is the most violent war you can have

Brutal people. CRT taught me that

50 million dead or so the last time whitey went at it and the overall population was way less

 

[PurpleThrobber]

White people fighting white people is the most violent war you can have
[/b]
Brutal people. CRT taught me that

50 million dead or so the last time whitey went at it and the overall population was way less

Ragnar and Utrid Son of Utrid approve this post.

 

[Sledog]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

I was a cop for nearly 30 years. I know how I react. I've worked the L.A. riots. I've served several hundred high risk search warrants. I'm sure of myself. YMMV

 

[HoustonHusky]

Neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians are telling the truth.o

Yup.https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1510608236134735872?s=21&t=uMlyyNw12GufbkUPZ29ZVg
https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1510996139868405768?s=21&t=uMlyyNw12GufbkUPZ29ZVg

I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -

A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm:https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368

The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see:https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html

Reuters has a picture of the exact same location...one of the guys decided to get up or not lie down for that picture or for some crazy reason he was removed and the others weren't:https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ith-hands-bound-bullet-wound-head-2022-04-03/

Who knows. The mayor of the town was all over the news 2 days before and didn't say a word about it. The Ukrainian police show up and the propaganda began. And if you want to get technical the street is part of the area Ukraine was shelling for most of March to try and push the Russians out. Add to that one of the Azov crazies Sergey Korotkikh had to delete a video he posted while in Bucha around that time of his folks murdering anyone not in blue armbands.

Who knows what the truth is there or anywhere in Ukraine...I just guarantee its not whatever they are telling you it is. It is easy to justify anything you don't like seeing as propaganda from the other side and anything you agree with as the truth...its how the human mind works. Rationalization is a powerful thing. If you believe anything being pushed out of there from either side for the news cycle you are allowing yourself to be manipulated...that's the purpose of propaganda. On both sides.

 

[PurpleThrobber]

Neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians are telling the truth.o

Yup.https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1510608236134735872?s=21&t=uMlyyNw12GufbkUPZ29ZVg
https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1510996139868405768?s=21&t=uMlyyNw12GufbkUPZ29ZVg

I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -

A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm:https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368

The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see:https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html

Reuters has a picture of the exact same location...one of the guys decided to get up or not lie down for that picture or for some crazy reason he was removed and the others weren't:https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ith-hands-bound-bullet-wound-head-2022-04-03/

Who knows. The mayor of the town was all over the news 2 days before and didn't say a word about it. The Ukrainian police show up and the propaganda began. And if you want to get technical the street is part of the area Ukraine was shelling for most of March to try and push the Russians out. Add to that one of the Azov crazies Sergey Korotkikh had to delete a video he posted while in Bucha around that time of his folks murdering anyone not in blue armbands.

Who knows what the truth is there or anywhere in Ukraine...I just guarantee its not whatever they are telling you it is. It is easy to justify anything you don't like seeing as propaganda from the other side and anything you agree with as the truth...its how the human mind works. Rationalization is a powerful thing. If you believe anything being pushed out of there from either side for the news cycle you are allowing yourself to be manipulated...that's the purpose of propaganda. On both sides.

I believe granny in Ukraine.

 

[WestlinnDuck]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

 

[Sledog]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

One?

 

[USMChawk]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

One?

It’s a start.

 

[RatherBeBrewing]

Neither the Russians nor the Ukraineans are telling the truth. It’s a propaganda war.

And they're both doing bad shit.

We only see what we're allowed to see.

That I can agree with 100% - in part due to the two parties involved, but also because... ya know, it’s a damn war. It’s not a truth telling contest.

Ukraine feeds on sympathy and guilt while Russia is trying to threaten, bribe, and appear just below the evil threshold to continue their gas and oil sales and to prevent weapons shipments to Ukraine.

But knowing both the way I do, this is how I interpret it-
Ukraine: exaggerates or downplays, based on whichever is needed to make them look better.
Russia: if they deny it they did it, if they spend a lot of effort to deny it then it’s even worse than it appears.

I also have about ~20 or so people there that I keep in touch with to varying degrees. A few are somewhat important, a few are trustworthy; Venn diagram doesn’t overlap much. I know two, neither of whom are Ukrainian, who left their comfortable lives in the UK and Lithuania to go be medics there, since many women have left and there is a need for nurses. Plus, I’m familiar with their social media and sometimes the Russians are the best source of info, in this way:

 

[RatherBeBrewing]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

You can imagine how you would react, but you won’t know for sure how you will until the opportunity arises. You also have to take into consideration the safety of your loved ones, the chances you’re taken by surprise, away from an area you’re comfortable with, etc. But feel free to cosplay your Rambo fantasies. I’m not being the least bit facetious, it’s good that not everyone is a pussy. Most men in the US and Western Europe are.

I’m not sure what in my background or comments makes you wonder if I’m anti-gun. My father was Soviet special forces, then military intelligence. One of the things he did was teach firearms to new recruits; I’ve been shooting for as long as I can remember. My stepdad was a USAF pilot who also loved to go shooting and bought me my first handgun, shit we used to pick off soup cans from my bedroom window with a little .22 rifle. I have a CHL. A few handguns, a few rifles, and a shotgun. I even have a functional flintlock pistol, in case I ever have to kill an Alexander Hamilton, Aleksandr Pushkin or any other early 19th century dick. My issue was with someone needlessly injecting that into the conversation, but I have enjoyed seeing how many people think they can conduct guerrilla warfare against a modern army.

 

[WestlinnDuck]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

You can imagine how you would react, but you won’t know for sure how you will until the opportunity arises. You also have to take into consideration the safety of your loved ones, the chances you’re taken by surprise, away from an area you’re comfortable with, etc. But feel free to cosplay your Rambo fantasies. I’m not being the least bit facetious, it’s good that not everyone is a pussy. Most men in the US and Western Europe are.

I’m not sure what in my background or comments makes you wonder if I’m anti-gun. My father was Soviet special forces, then military intelligence. One of the things he did was teach firearms to new recruits; I’ve been shooting for as long as I can remember. My stepdad was a USAF pilot who also loved to go shooting and bought me my first handgun, shit we used to pick off soup cans from my bedroom window with a little .22 rifle. I have a CHL. A few handguns, a few rifles, and a shotgun. I even have a functional flintlock pistol, in case I ever have to kill an Alexander Hamilton, Aleksandr Pushkin or any other early 19th century dick. My issue was with someone needlessly injecting that into the conversation, but I have enjoyed seeing how many people think they can conduct guerrilla warfare against a modern army.

The guerilla war has been pretty successful over time. Ask the French and Americans about Vietnam. Chiang Kai-shek ended up in Taiwan. The Finns did pretty well against the Russians. I know myself and hiding in the basement waiting for torture, rape and death isn't my style. One of my biggest knocks of the US refugee program is the admittance of military age men who refused to protect themselves and their families. I get the women and children, but being the world's welfare magnet for people who won't defend themselves bothers me.

 

[RaceBannon]

The French and Indians didn't fight fair like the Brits and General Washington took that to heart

The American Revolution was an original guerilla war fought against the greatest power on earth

Ho Chi Minh studied it

 

[WestlinnDuck]

The French and Indians didn't fight fair like the Brits and General Washington took that to heart

The American Revolution was an original guerilla war fought against the greatest power on earth

Ho Chi Minh studied it

After Wellington defeated Napoleon at Waterloo, they sent some of their best soldiers to New Orleans. Infantry squares weren't that effective on broken ground.

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
If we didn't fire our muskets
'Til we looked 'em in the eye
We held our fire
'Til we see'd their faces well
Then we opened up our squirrel guns
And really gave 'em, well
We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they begin to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
Yeah, they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes
Where a rabbit couldn't go
They ran so fast
That the hounds couldn't catch 'em
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

 

[PurpleThrobber]

The French and Indians didn't fight fair like the Brits and General Washington took that to heart

The American Revolution was an original guerilla war fought against the greatest power on earth

Ho Chi Minh studied it

After Wellington defeated Napoleon at Waterloo, they sent some of their best soldiers to New Orleans. Infantry squares weren't that effective on broken ground.

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
If we didn't fire our muskets
'Til we looked 'em in the eye
We held our fire
'Til we see'd their faces well
Then we opened up our squirrel guns
And really gave 'em, well
We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin'
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they begin to runnin'
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
Yeah, they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes
Where a rabbit couldn't go
They ran so fast
That the hounds couldn't catch 'em
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico

View attachment 48866

People forget the War of 1812 was already over when Old Hickory won the Battle of New Orleans.

Kind of the bronze medal game of the skirmish.

 

[UW_Doog_Bot]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

You can imagine how you would react, but you won’t know for sure how you will until the opportunity arises. You also have to take into consideration the safety of your loved ones, the chances you’re taken by surprise, away from an area you’re comfortable with, etc. But feel free to cosplay your Rambo fantasies. I’m not being the least bit facetious, it’s good that not everyone is a pussy. Most men in the US and Western Europe are.

I’m not sure what in my background or comments makes you wonder if I’m anti-gun. My father was Soviet special forces, then military intelligence. One of the things he did was teach firearms to new recruits; I’ve been shooting for as long as I can remember. My stepdad was a USAF pilot [/b]who also loved to go shooting and bought me my first handgun, shit we used to pick off soup cans from my bedroom window with a little .22 rifle. I have a CHL. A few handguns, a few rifles, and a shotgun. I even have a functional flintlock pistol, in case I ever have to kill an Alexander Hamilton, Aleksandr Pushkin or any other early 19th century dick. My issue was with someone needlessly injecting that into the conversation, but I have enjoyed seeing how many people think they can conduct guerrilla warfare against a modern army.

It's always the airforce guys that think "modern armies" are invincible against armed civilians.

I kid (somewhat)and digress, I appreciate your pov especially in regards to what is actually happening in Ukraine. Legit darkly LOL'd at the Simpsons reference to the Russians. Reminds me a bit of how the Germans documented all their atrocities meticulously. They just can't help themselves.

The comps to insurgency etc. Are somewhat inevitable given the subject matter. Agree that 2a arguments can be owened into their own threds. This is the Ukraine thred damn it!

 

[UW_Doog_Bot]

 

[RatherBeBrewing]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

You can imagine how you would react, but you won’t know for sure how you will until the opportunity arises. You also have to take into consideration the safety of your loved ones, the chances you’re taken by surprise, away from an area you’re comfortable with, etc. But feel free to cosplay your Rambo fantasies. I’m not being the least bit facetious, it’s good that not everyone is a pussy. Most men in the US and Western Europe are.

I’m not sure what in my background or comments makes you wonder if I’m anti-gun. My father was Soviet special forces, then military intelligence. One of the things he did was teach firearms to new recruits; I’ve been shooting for as long as I can remember. My stepdad was a USAF pilot [/b]who also loved to go shooting and bought me my first handgun, shit we used to pick off soup cans from my bedroom window with a little .22 rifle. I have a CHL. A few handguns, a few rifles, and a shotgun. I even have a functional flintlock pistol, in case I ever have to kill an Alexander Hamilton, Aleksandr Pushkin or any other early 19th century dick. My issue was with someone needlessly injecting that into the conversation, but I have enjoyed seeing how many people think they can conduct guerrilla warfare against a modern army.

It's always the airforce guys that think "modern armies" are invincible against armed civilians.[/b]

I kid (somewhat)and digress, I appreciate your pov especially in regards to what is actually happening in Ukraine. Legit darkly LOL'd at the Simpsons reference to the Russians. Reminds me a bit of how the Germans documented all their atrocities meticulously. They just can't help themselves.

The comps to insurgency etc. Are somewhat inevitable given the subject matter. Agree that 2a arguments can be owened into their own threds. This is the Ukraine thred damn it!

(My stepdad flew transport planes when he was a USAF pilot. He has no opinions on combat situations and invincibility, based on what I know his greatest danger was not letting his two Japanese girlfriends discover the other’s existence).

I’m mostly basing that off US statistics from Iraq and Afghanistan, Operation We Didn’t Even Get The Oil and Operation Enduring Clusterfuck. Only 12% and 13% of KIA were from small arms fire. Not all of those were even hostile caused, as the figure includes friendly fire and the infiltrators of local army/security. I think you can guess why those are combined. Even in Afghanistan, a place made for hiding and ambush. Meanwhile, IEDs turned out to be the most effective weapon. That, and the CIA guys that Obama sent in 2014 to gauge the Russian and Ukrainian capability were stunned to see how much different warfare is against a well equipped and trained army.

Anyway, just I was catching up on this thread and saw the expected Red Dawn reference this popped up on Twitter. Someone there still has a sense of humor:
https://twitter.com/OTolmachev/status/1512131101506031616?s=20&t=WDJl43v_dXh5xjBF9St18Q

 

[UW_Doog_Bot]

War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.

Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.

Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources:https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.

I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.

If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.

If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing[/b]. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.

Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class. [/b]

I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. [/i]

The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.

I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.

You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.

If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.

Actually, I have a real good idea of how I would react. And so did the American founders. Given your background and comments, I'm not sure if you have a problem with an armed citizenry or not. It's clear that authoritarian governments and leftards everywhere have a huge problem with an armed citizenry. If the dazzler and the slobberer don't want me to have an AR-15, that's good enough for me that I need to have one.

You can imagine how you would react, but you won’t know for sure how you will until the opportunity arises. You also have to take into consideration the safety of your loved ones, the chances you’re taken by surprise, away from an area you’re comfortable with, etc. But feel free to cosplay your Rambo fantasies. I’m not being the least bit facetious, it’s good that not everyone is a pussy. Most men in the US and Western Europe are.

I’m not sure what in my background or comments makes you wonder if I’m anti-gun. My father was Soviet special forces, then military intelligence. One of the things he did was teach firearms to new recruits; I’ve been shooting for as long as I can remember. My stepdad was a USAF pilot [/b]who also loved to go shooting and bought me my first handgun, shit we used to pick off soup cans from my bedroom window with a little .22 rifle. I have a CHL. A few handguns, a few rifles, and a shotgun. I even have a functional flintlock pistol, in case I ever have to kill an Alexander Hamilton, Aleksandr Pushkin or any other early 19th century dick. My issue was with someone needlessly injecting that into the conversation, but I have enjoyed seeing how many people think they can conduct guerrilla warfare against a modern army.

It's always the airforce guys that think "modern armies" are invincible against armed civilians.[/b]

I kid (somewhat)and digress, I appreciate your pov especially in regards to what is actually happening in Ukraine. Legit darkly LOL'd at the Simpsons reference to the Russians. Reminds me a bit of how the Germans documented all their atrocities meticulously. They just can't help themselves.

The comps to insurgency etc. Are somewhat inevitable given the subject matter. Agree that 2a arguments can be owened into their own threds. This is the Ukraine thred damn it!

(My stepdad flew transport planes when he was a USAF pilot. He has no opinions on combat situations and invincibility, based on what I know his greatest danger was not letting his two Japanese girlfriends discover the other’s existence).

I’m mostly basing that off US statistics from Iraq and Afghanistan, Operation We Didn’t Even Get The Oil and Operation Enduring Clusterfuck. Only 12% and 13% of KIA were from small arms fire. Not all of those were even hostile caused, as the figure includes friendly fire and the infiltrators of local army/security. I think you can guess why those are combined. Even in Afghanistan, a place made for hiding and ambush. Meanwhile, IEDs turned out to be the most effective weapon. That, and the CIA guys that Obama sent in 2014 to gauge the Russian and Ukrainian capability were stunned to see how much different warfare is against a well equipped and trained army.

Anyway, just I was catching up on this thread and saw the expected Red Dawn reference this popped up on Twitter. Someone there still has a sense of humor:
https://twitter.com/OTolmachev/status/1512131101506031616?s=20&t=WDJl43v_dXh5xjBF9St18Q

At the end of the day in Iraq and Afghanistan they had to recruit local militia to actually, you know, hold territory.

We can argue the tactical efficiency of a militia ad nauseum. The point very basically comes down to is an armed citizenry harder to oppress? Yes, yes they are. Qualifying that ymmv as to how much harder.

There's a whole host of force multipliers that go into the equation and that's before you get into the higher level logistical shit. I don't think anyone here is claiming they are about to go toe to toe with a 6'5" army ranger.

I'd say recent examples, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, are evidence that it's a shit load harder than most people think for even a high tech advanced military to subdue a resistant population.

Recent technology advances that we assumed would favor large military forces with big budgets such as drones and advances in AI/software are actually proving that they can level the playing field and negate many of the traditional advantages a big budget provides.

Manpads are cheap and can erode air superiority, cheap commercial drones can provide combined arms coordination to light equipped infantry, modern decentralized networks can provide intelligence gathering that rivals a massive defense department, anti-armor has become cheap and effective etc. The list is extensive.

 

[RaceBannon]

If you could do a flyover of Germany and Japan in 1945 you'd see what it takes for a military force to subdue the population. Total war and destruction

Since the end of WW2 and nuclear powers the idea of total destruction is off the table. Nukes actually have deterred total war. In the place is bloodshed and destruction while the "international community" keeps score