Offensive Depth for Spring
- Thread starter whatshouldicareabout
- Start date
Steve_Bowman
New Fish
This line up is not good; a few good players but no offensive line and no QB. Don James could not do much with this kind of talent. I would not be surprised to see this team at 6 - 6. I feel Petersen will get it done. We'll know by the end of year there.
Speaking of Don, he had a losing record his second year. Yeah, I know, "Win are get the fuck out the fuck out, Don."
Speaking of Don, he had a losing record his second year. Yeah, I know, "Win are get the fuck out the fuck out, Don."
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RavennaDawg
New Fish
No one is disputing what you are saying.
I stick by my Michael Bates analogy, a guy who made an NFL All-Decade team in a decade in which he had 7 catches for 120 yards. Because being "absolutely electric and a threat to house it every time the ball is in his hands" is fine if you are a kick returner, but unless you can combine it with "and can get open and has decent hands" it is not worth much for a wr.
When Reggie was being criticized during his junior year, he was quoted saying that he was open every play. And if you watched him, you noticed that he was open every. single. play.
Ross the wr is a guy that you like less and less the more you watch him. If he is still playing wr next year (I hope not) the next time you see him get open via a football move, will be the first.
NeGgaPlEaSe
New Fish
The guy is open from the moment he steps out of bed... it helps being small (i.e.sub 6' and having his speed and lateral quickness, neither of which Reggie possessed. I'm not buying that shit, he's never open. I don't even know how you can state 4.55-4.6 Reggie Willams, compares to 4.29 John Ross. They are not even in the same league. Just incase you forgot who are talking about. Like less and less? He was the most dynamic player on offense before injury and OKG doghouse, as a sophomore. Let's give him at least a junior year before judging.
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HFNY
Well-known poster
Didn't Ross de-commit from USC because they wanted him as a DB? I think Ross stays at CB because I wouldn't see him getting many snaps ahead of Pettis or Lenius (our only big WR with experience).
By no means was I saying Hatchie was a stud but we could do worse at LT in 2015. Maybe they'll move Coleman Shelton over since he was the first OT off the bench after Riva went out. Or do they keep Shelton at RT and put in McGary at LT?
KJCS or Browning can't be worse than Miles was leading the offense and we didn't really lose any skill guys of note. We still have Mickens (really a #2 though) and bigger WRs Pettis and Lenius (6'5") should be good as sophs. All of the RBs are back and Dotson and / or McClatcher could provide an extra dimension.
So if the OL can improve despite losing some vets (though if a vet sucks, does it matter?), it's hard not to see a new QB (with better decision making and a stronger arm than Miles) leading to an improvement in the offense.
I just have no idea about the OL except for Charles starting at LG, Tufunga starting at C or RG, and Shelton starting at one of the OT spots.
By no means was I saying Hatchie was a stud but we could do worse at LT in 2015. Maybe they'll move Coleman Shelton over since he was the first OT off the bench after Riva went out. Or do they keep Shelton at RT and put in McGary at LT?
KJCS or Browning can't be worse than Miles was leading the offense and we didn't really lose any skill guys of note. We still have Mickens (really a #2 though) and bigger WRs Pettis and Lenius (6'5") should be good as sophs. All of the RBs are back and Dotson and / or McClatcher could provide an extra dimension.
So if the OL can improve despite losing some vets (though if a vet sucks, does it matter?), it's hard not to see a new QB (with better decision making and a stronger arm than Miles) leading to an improvement in the offense.
I just have no idea about the OL except for Charles starting at LG, Tufunga starting at C or RG, and Shelton starting at one of the OT spots.
RavennaDawg
New Fish
I make two posts comparing the guy to an NFL All-Decade kickoff returner, while claiming he is not very good at wide receiver.
You respond by showing a clip of him returning a kickoff.
You respond by showing a clip of him returning a kickoff.
NeGgaPlEaSe
New Fish
Actually I said look at his speed by showing the video. There is probably 1 or 2 corners who can actually stay with him in D1. Saying he is not very good at wide receiver because he can't get open is Section14aFS.
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RavennaDawg
New Fish
Again, I compare John Ross to a guy who was a poor wide receiver despite being an all-time great kickoff returner and an Olympic Bronze Medalist in the 200, and you respond with "...look at his speed".
You do know that when Hooker entered the Husky HOF last year, it was not for football?
Getting open and catching the ball is kinda the entire point of being a wide receiver. If Ross can use his speed to get open, as I am sure he did in highschool, that is great. If he is in a situation where his speed cannot get him open, then he is in trouble.
NeGgaPlEaSe
New Fish
I can tell this is going nowhere fast, you have no basis in your FS argument. Again, the guy can not be covered by one person, he's too fast. You comparing Ross to Hooker is getting Doogman FS. The Reggie Williams comparison was horrible, but the Hooker comparison is FS. Ross is shifty and fast and a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball. Don't forget he was injured early in the season and had surgery. He played the season on a bad wheel and still was the fastest player on the field. Saying he wasn't open because there is an entire defense keying on him because there is no run game, no tight end and no blocking is beyond FS
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CokeGreaterThanPepsi
New Fish
Being fast doesn't mean you can just get open by running a fly route every single time. I personally feel his potential is so much greater as a corner.
His get off on the line is not good, he doesn't run good routes at all and he doesn't block well.
I like him coming in for a few plays on offense when it is tough for the defense to recognize in a no huddle situation. Much easier to fit his skills on offense when you do that with him.
His get off on the line is not good, he doesn't run good routes at all and he doesn't block well.
I like him coming in for a few plays on offense when it is tough for the defense to recognize in a no huddle situation. Much easier to fit his skills on offense when you do that with him.
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seatownfunk
New Fish
Ross would outrun cyler's range. If the qb can get him the ball deep (like the hawaii game 
) then he needs to be a wr. If not (god help us) then he stays at corner, where the nfl money is better.
) then he needs to be a wr. If not (god help us) then he stays at corner, where the nfl money is better.
Dardanus
New Fish
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though.
whatshouldicareabout
Active poster
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though.
There is bias in breaking down his stats into those two categories and arriving at those conclusions.
A more appropriate analysis would be to look at where the ball was thrown and what Ross did with the ball after the catch (YAC). For example, in the Apple Cup, Lindquist threw a 50 yard bomb to Ross in the end zone and dropped it, yet that incompletion is not listened in the >50 yard category and placed in the 50 yard plays were TDs that he had were caught at the LOS and turned into TDs.
(play at 1:35):http://www.gohuskies.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3470227&db_oem_id=30200
and
I think it'd be better to look at throwing the ball to Ross between the LOS to 5 yards down field, 6-19 yards, and 20+ yards to get a better idea of how he is in the short and intermediate game, because as those three examples show, there is incomplete information in how that data is presented and used.
As for the third downs, we were 40.7% on third last year. However, all those thirds listed for Ross were third and long, meaning we shouldn't compare those third and longs to overall third down percentage, since third and long will usually have a much lower percentage than third and medium and third and short. Hell, going 3/4 with an average of 7.6 yards on third down would be pretty damn good if not for the fact that they were third and 14s and third and 22s in there.
Dardanus
New Fish
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though.
There is bias in breaking down his stats into those two categories and arriving at those conclusions.
A more appropriate analysis would be to look at where the ball was thrown and what Ross did with the ball after the catch (YAC). For example, in the Apple Cup, Lindquist threw a 50 yard bomb to Ross in the end zone and dropped it, yet that incompletion is not listened in the >50 yard category and placed in the 50 yard plays were TDs that he had were caught at the LOS and turned into TDs.
(play at 1:35):http://www.gohuskies.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3470227&db_oem_id=30200
and
I think it'd be better to look at throwing the ball to Ross between the LOS to 5 yards down field, 6-19 yards, and 20+ yards to get a better idea of how he is in the short and intermediate game, because as those three examples show, there is incomplete information in how that data is presented and used.
As for the third downs, we were 40.7% on third last year. However, all those thirds listed for Ross were third and long, meaning we shouldn't compare those third and longs to overall third down percentage, since third and long will usually have a much lower percentage than third and medium and third and short. Hell, going 3/4 with an average of 7.6 yards on third down would be pretty damn good if not for the fact that they were third and 14s and third and 22s in there.
Re incomplete passes: I have no way of knowing whether incomplete passes were 50 yard bombs or bubble screens because that information is not recorded (which I already said, fucko). But I do agree that it's not really fair to determine his short/intermediate game isn't good because we don't have enough info.
YAC is a good measure, but unfortunately I don't have any of that data. I'd love to look at it if you could point me to a good source, though.
I understand and agree that 3rd down conversion rate is low, especially on 3rd and long. 3rd down conversion rate on plays to Ross were especially low (0%).
RavennaDawg
New Fish
My argument is based on his performance on the football field. Novel concept, I know.
JaWarren Hooker could not be covered by one person. He was too fast. Sam Graddy/Ron Brown/Renaldo Neihmiah/Jonny Lam Jones/Michael Bates could not be covered by one person. They were too fast. Fast, but not very good wide receivers.
The guy is great at returning kickoffs. He is very fast. He is not a very good wide receiver. As you so astutely pointed out, he is "a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball". It's the getting the ball that is his problem. When the other team literally kicks the ball to him, and gives him a 60 yard head start, he can make plays.
Reggie Williams could get open. Not as fast. There is more to being a receiver than being a track star.
No one is disputing your thesis that John Ross is fast.
NeGgaPlEaSe
New Fish
Fast/ quick? two entirely different things.... If you said Ross can't get off the fucking line you might have a halfway valid argument. But with the PAC 12 refs and the holding calls, guess what? Getting open in a zone? Well having a Qb who can't throw the ball into Lake Washington without hitting the Yacht club first may play a part in that. Or a running game that no one respects
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