Nothings changed with Montlake

[creepycoug]

there’s some nuance in all of this.

Race, et al are correct. Fats was ostensibly a better game day coach. The players played for him and seemed to believe in him. Hard to deny he was a winner even b4 Penix.
but he had Penix, who was a killer at the most important position, and the best WR collection UW has ever had, to win several close games. He also had some Peterman defensive recruits.
But, DeBoer never had sphincter problems in the big moments, which his team picked up on.
I think DeBoer himself was a killer. IMO.
I do recall there being some complaints that DeBoer wasn’t an ace recruiter. But he could’ve turned out like Pete, who also had complaints here about his recruiting until the NFL production started to manifest itself. So, jury was still out on DeBoer. Not here long enough to know.

Many things can be true at the same time. It’s weird but that’s the way it is.

I just saw a stat that the Seahawks are +39 points in the last 2:00 min of any half. That’s 1st in the NFL. We’re seeing a Grubbless, Penixless product at Bama and it’s, shall we say…DeDogshit?

I'm enjoying what's happening in Tuscaloosa as much as the next guy, mostly because of the whole program. But this idea that this is proof positive that he's not really that good and it was all Penix and Grubb is a little sweeping (but then again, that's what we? do around here). KDB has little more than a talented running back for a QB. It's a problem even in the watered down SEC SEC.

 

[HHusky]

If Fisch isn't good, Chun (who didn't hire him) could pull the plug after Year 2. If Purdue just did it, so can UW.
But without an NIL budget of at least $15 million, it will be difficult to beat the teams that have 2x the NIL / recruiting budget UW does. From what I understand, UW's NIL budget is $10 million and the biggest budgets are $20 million or more.

Now that we openly look at college football's uncapped payrolls like we do major league baseball's, why do the colleges even need to be involved? The NFL can afford a developmental league.

Brand. Used to hate the word, but it's the word that drives economis and cfb has brand based on history. The Eugene Mustangs and the Montlake Marauders are going to be as meaningful as XFL teams, whose fanbases are always fringe.

I think the same crowd that couldn't live without a tournament deciding a champion had no abiding love for college football anyway. These kids are barely affiliated with any particular university; they may attend 5 schools in as many years. Kind of silly to require them to do any course work when that's not what they're here for.
When Kirk Herbstreit waxes indignant because future pros sit out the Rose Bowl, I want to yell "What the fuck did you think was going to happen when you professionalized the game and made the bowls meaningless?"
Rip the band aid off. The FBS is just the Triple A baseball equivalent for football.

 

[creepycoug]

If Fisch isn't good, Chun (who didn't hire him) could pull the plug after Year 2. If Purdue just did it, so can UW.
But without an NIL budget of at least $15 million, it will be difficult to beat the teams that have 2x the NIL / recruiting budget UW does. From what I understand, UW's NIL budget is $10 million and the biggest budgets are $20 million or more.

Now that we openly look at college football's uncapped payrolls like we do major league baseball's, why do the colleges even need to be involved? The NFL can afford a developmental league.

Brand. Used to hate the word, but it's the word that drives economis and cfb has brand based on history. The Eugene Mustangs and the Montlake Marauders are going to be as meaningful as XFL teams, whose fanbases are always fringe.

I think the same crowd that couldn't live without a tournament deciding a champion had no abiding love for college football anyway. These kids are barely affiliated with any particular university; they may attend 5 schools in as many years. Kind of silly to require them to do any course work when that's not what they're here for.
When Kirk Herbstreit waxes indignant because future pros sit out the Rose Bowl, I want to yell "What the fuck did you think was going to happen when you professionalized the game and made the bowls meaningless?"
Rip the band aid off. The FBS is just the Triple A baseball equivalent for football.

I agree with all that. But I go back to brand. Brand is not necessarily reality. It's the impression of reality. You can hate it like Plato hated art for the same reasons, but there you have it. If people believe it, it's real for all intents and purposes.
Nobody is going to care about the rivalry between the Eugene Mustangs and the Montlake Marauders. Except maybe some folks in Marysville and Springfield.

 

[Quietcowskee]

there’s some nuance in all of this.

Race, et al are correct. Fats was ostensibly a better game day coach. The players played for him and seemed to believe in him. Hard to deny he was a winner even b4 Penix.
but he had Penix, who was a killer at the most important position, and the best WR collection UW has ever had, to win several close games. He also had some Peterman defensive recruits.
But, DeBoer never had sphincter problems in the big moments, which his team picked up on.
I think DeBoer himself was a killer. IMO.
I do recall there being some complaints that DeBoer wasn’t an ace recruiter. But he could’ve turned out like Pete, who also had complaints here about his recruiting until the NFL production started to manifest itself. So, jury was still out on DeBoer. Not here long enough to know.

Many things can be true at the same time. It’s weird but that’s the way it is.

I just saw a stat that the Seahawks are +39 points in the last 2:00 min of any half. That’s 1st in the NFL. We’re seeing a Grubbless, Penixless product at Bama and it’s, shall we say…DeDogshit?

I'm enjoying what's happening in Tuscaloosa as much as the next guy, mostly because of the whole program. But this idea that this is proof positive that he's not really that good and it was all Penix and Grubb is a little sweeping (but then again, that's what we? do around here). KDB has little more than a talented running back for a QB. It's a problem even in the watered down SEC SEC.

Mental exercise. What’s UW’s record under DeBoer’s staff with everything the same but DMo at QB?

 

[Tequilla]

Talk about an absolute over-reaction
DeBoer did a great job on the field here … would have loved to have kept him if he wanted to stay
He wasn’t a great recruiter here … wasn’t bad but wasn’t great
When he left, combining what he took with him to Alabama, the open door it led to others to leave, and the gaps between the Lake and DeBoer recruiting classes as it was …
I don’t care who coached this team this year there were going to be limitations due to talent
This winners win shit is great when you’re operating with a full deck …
First thing for this program is rebuilding this program starting at the LOS

 

[MikeSeaver]

I know for sure he wasn’t going to stay at a place he needed to give a million dollars of his own money to.

 

[chuck]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

 

[HHusky]

Chinned for comparison of Plato to HHusky.
I'm more of a Cato the Elder guy ("Eugene must be destroyed!"), but still.

 

[Quietcowskee]

I know for sure he wasn’t going to stay at a place he needed to give a million dollars of his own money to.

Thanks Kirk Cameron.

 

[Quietcowskee]

The big thing was that he only had the second portal window to work with. Plus, there was that period post-DeBoer where anybody could poach our dudes even though we couldn’t get anybody. Not ideal.

 

[dirtysouwfdawg]

If Fisch isn't good, Chun (who didn't hire him) could pull the plug after Year 2. If Purdue just did it, so can UW.
But without an NIL budget of at least $15 million, it will be difficult to beat the teams that have 2x the NIL / recruiting budget UW does. From what I understand, UW's NIL budget is $10 million and the biggest budgets are $20 million or more.

Now that we openly look at college football's uncapped payrolls like we do major league baseball's, why do the colleges even need to be involved? The NFL can afford a developmental league.

Because no one cares about 19 year old 270 pound left tackles and won't watch. College football has more grass roots connection to its fans than any other sport.

This is also the reason I believe the schools should have told the kids to play for free or go find a non existent development league to play in 5 or 6 years ago. The NFL can't even pay practice sqwaaad guys so they have no interest in paying for the blinged out 5* Florida WRs to wash out after 3 years after costing the league half a mil.

Ultimately cfb has no need for the "elite" players that are driving the NIL craze. Take out the top 100 players from each class and the product doesn't change. The NCAA (the schools) let the train get away from them

*did have more grass roots connections

 

[Kingdome_Urinals]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

I actually liked DeBoer's evaluations. He really knew how to fit guys to scheme and vice versa. His portal picks would have been good.
I think if he stays UW is looking at a 9-3 season this year and the program is still building with positive buzz.

 

[HFNY]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

I actually liked DeBoer's evaluations. He really knew how to fit guys to scheme and vice versa. His portal picks would have been good.
I think if he stays UW is looking at a 9-3 season this year and the program is still building with positive buzz.

DeBoer and his staff's evaluations were pretty good but he could have covered more holes in the first portal period. Who on earth did he / Huff think would start at LT (IIRC, McCree was a Carroll recruit) and Huff brought in Azzopardi to play RT (subpar in the B1G). Valdez was a good get at DT but they could have used another DT like him.
So if DeBoer had stayed, UW likely would have beat WSU and Rutgers but I still see a roster with deficiencies remaining at both OT spots and the DL which means losses still @Iowa, @Indiana, @Penn State, and @Oregon.

 

[TheHB]

If Fisch isn't good, Chun (who didn't hire him) could pull the plug after Year 2. If Purdue just did it, so can UW.
But without an NIL budget of at least $15 million, it will be difficult to beat the teams that have 2x the NIL / recruiting budget UW does. From what I understand, UW's NIL budget is $10 million and the biggest budgets are $20 million or more.

woe is UW. Poor babies don’t have enough money. Boo hoo.

 

[TheHB]

and fuck Fisch. He lost to fucking Rutgers and WSU, teams with far less talent than UW. He got embarrassed on the road every time out.
I don’t give a shit who left with DeBoer, my eyes are good enough to see that the coaching sucked and this team showed no improvement.
Fisch should be fired. It’s gonna happen eventually, might as well start the process sooner than later.
He is not a winner.

 

[HFNY]

Well what's super chinteresting is that someone else said they saw on X that UW's budget will be a non-poor $15 million or more next year (did he say $17 mil?). Who knows if that's true but it sounds like they kept $3 to $4 million in reserve because it was limited pickins in the 2nd portal period.
Let's say it's $15 million and that would be about $9 million more than they spent in 2024 if Fisch was correct in saying they spent about $6 million this year. I'd guess $15 million would be in the top 20 of spenders next year and $17 million might be top 15.
The NIL thread going has the details.

 

[Canadawg]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

Getting tired of you guys fact checking me to be honest

 

[chuck]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

Getting tired of you guys fact checking me to be honest

Haha. I was actually opinion checking you. I'm only going off of memory and a cursory look at the 23 and 24 classes. There are other factors one could consider like timing etc, but it seems like we're in about the same place.
Fisch hasn't even had a signing class yet, and just had one of the best recruits jump ship to be replaced by stealing a 3* from WSU. The common given cited by those who want to defend Fisch by tearing down Deboer is that he's proven to be a great recruiter while Deboer was proven to be a bad one. One overwrought Fisch doog last night stated he was millions or billions of times better.
I'd just like to see some analysis that illustrates the point. Since it's that wide of a divide it should be relatively easy.

 

[Canadawg]

I don't think anyone didn't want Deboer to stay. The discussions about his terrible recruiting are separate conversations that get misconstrued imo

Terrible? Was recruiting really that much worse or has that just become the accepted narrative?

Getting tired of you guys fact checking me to be honest

Haha. I was actually opinion checking you. I'm only going off of memory and a cursory look at the 23 and 24 classes. There are other factors one could consider like timing etc, but it seems like we're in about the same place.
Fisch hasn't even had a signing class yet, and just had one of the best recruits jump ship to be replaced by stealing a 3* from WSU. The common given cited by those who want to defend Fisch by tearing down Deboer is that he's proven to be a great recruiter while Deboer was proven to be a bad one. One overwrought Fisch doog last night stated he was millions or billions of times better.
I'd just like to see some analysis that illustrates the point. Since it's that wide of a divide it should be relatively easy.

Yeah in all honesty the reality imo is that Deboers recruiting was just ok and among his otherwise excellent performance it stood out like a sore thumb and its revision to say it wasn't a concern last year. Having said that I have no idea how that would make someone say that's a good defense for Fisches issues. Completely separate discussions

 

[chuck]

And another 4*, an OL, is apparently defecting...