Pitchfork51
Active poster
I am a fan of IF and then just not eating bread.
One small meal at lunch, one big ass meal at dinner on normal days. A protein shake or apple if I'm randomly hungry.
done.
My God Fetters
- Thread starter HuskyJW
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I am a fan of IF and then just not eating bread.
One small meal at lunch, one big ass meal at dinner on normal days. A protein shake or apple if I'm randomly hungry.
done.
DoogCourics
New Fish
Agree and disagree. And yes, fuck me for writing a fucking thesis as a retort.
Agree that weight loss happens in the kitchen. Disagree that calories in calories out is the method to do it.
Calories matter (you can't overeat like a maniac and stay thin), but a lot of it has to do with nutrient composition. A calorie, in fact, is not a calorie, The way the body processes fat, protein, carbs, and fiber are all different. In fact, the body uses more energy to burn or store a gram of fat than the calories that the gram of fat is worth. Carbs on the other hand, are easily stored in fat cells once muscles have been filled. The majority of Americans consume far too many carbs. What they fail to realize is those excess carbs are stored as fat.
In the same vein, yes, eating sub 1400 calories will cause you to lose weight. But if you do body composition scans you'll see that it's a blend of body fat as well as muscle mass.
Intermittent fasting is on the right track, but after 12 hours of fasting your body again starts to consume it's own muscle mass. The body assumes it's in starvation mode and after 12 hours switches to conserve fat. If you give it a fat load around hour 10 (pretty easy if you sleep 8 hours then go work out), the body has something to use and will not consume it's muscle mass.
Nutrient timing is the first key. The body wakes up in a fat burning state. Eating carbs spikes insulin and turns the body into storage mode and turns off fat burning mode. It's likely that the muscles are full, and in turn the body stores the carbs in fat cells. Breakfast is the most important meal indeed, to skip carbs. Give the body fat and protein in the morning, and it continues the fat burning state that it is already in.
The second key is weight lifting. This causes the muscles to use their stored glycogen and make them ripe for uptake of carbs that are ingested. Eat these carbs at night when insulin sensitivity has gone down, and the muscles soak them all up.
If you're not weight lifting, then the third key is just to cut out carbs all together. Strict high fat; moderate protein diet and ultra low carbs. Like between 20-40 max per day. The body will use up the carbs you have stored through the week (since you aren't lifting and cycling the carbs out daily).
Then at the end of the week, eat carbs from like 4-10 pm and refill the muscles as well as spike hormone levels. Then stop eating carbs for the next week. Rinse and repeat.
Key 1 - Skip carbs at breakfast and lunch.
Key 2 - Lift weights to use muscles stored glycogen and ready the for uptake of carbs at night.
Key 3 - If you don't lift weights, cut out carbs entirely through the entire week, then eat a fuck load at night at the end of the week to restart the system.
This system doesn't really fit for elite athletes as the amount of work they put their bodies through is constantly cycling carbs out so they don't really store that easily. Their bodies are fine tuned for turn and burn.
Want an example to prove this works and cutting calories isn't needed? I'll use myself.
I had some major injuries over the last few years and just started being a fatass. Eating what I wanted when I wanted it and stopped lifting entirely as that's how I got my injuries. Instead of learning that I was putting my body through too much with how much I was lifting and scaling back, I just stopped everything entirely. Gained a fuck load of weight.
This summer I decided it had gone too far and got back at it.
Lift Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday at about 40% of the intensity I used to. Decided to have carbs once a week as I'm focused on fat loss over muscle gain. Doing body scans to track.
Eat a fat
rotein ratio of 1g:1g and target lean mass for total. Keep carbs under 30g total for the day (fiber doesn't count because it's digested as a fat), and then every Saturday evening for 6 hours I eat whatever the fuck I want. Tends to be pastries, pizza, pasta, and whatever other carbs I wanted all week. Also did about 8 beer festivals through the summer. Then Sunday-Friday it's back to no carb.I've been tracking, and on average every week, I'm eating 2,500-2,800 calories a day.
From June 1st to September 1st, dropped 20 pounds. Muscle mass actually went up by 5 pounds so in total it was 25 pounds of fat loss without cutting calories, just cutting carbs and dialing back my lifting intensity since I wouldn't have the constant carbs to fuel my workouts.
*end counter-rant*
TL
R - I'll just go kill myself now for writing all that.[/b]
My preferred diet plan...
CuntWaffle
New Fish
It varies from person to person. I lean out fine on carbs and eat them at all parts throughout the day with a little more around weightlifting times. IF is good for people because it gives you some sort of structure to keep you in a caloric defecit without having to count your food. There are some other health benefits to it but overall it doesn't really matter. Key thing is always sustainability.
NorwegianHusky
New Fish
Agree and disagree. And yes, fuck me for writing a fucking thesis as a retort.
Agree that weight loss happens in the kitchen. Disagree that calories in calories out is the method to do it.
Calories matter (you can't overeat like a maniac and stay thin), but a lot of it has to do with nutrient composition. A calorie, in fact, is not a calorie, The way the body processes fat, protein, carbs, and fiber are all different. In fact, the body uses more energy to burn or store a gram of fat than the calories that the gram of fat is worth. Carbs on the other hand, are easily stored in fat cells once muscles have been filled. The majority of Americans consume far too many carbs. What they fail to realize is those excess carbs are stored as fat.
In the same vein, yes, eating sub 1400 calories will cause you to lose weight. But if you do body composition scans you'll see that it's a blend of body fat as well as muscle mass.
Intermittent fasting is on the right track, but after 12 hours of fasting your body again starts to consume it's own muscle mass. The body assumes it's in starvation mode and after 12 hours switches to conserve fat. If you give it a fat load around hour 10 (pretty easy if you sleep 8 hours then go work out), the body has something to use and will not consume it's muscle mass.
Nutrient timing is the first key. The body wakes up in a fat burning state. Eating carbs spikes insulin and turns the body into storage mode and turns off fat burning mode. It's likely that the muscles are full, and in turn the body stores the carbs in fat cells. Breakfast is the most important meal indeed, to skip carbs. Give the body fat and protein in the morning, and it continues the fat burning state that it is already in.
The second key is weight lifting. This causes the muscles to use their stored glycogen and make them ripe for uptake of carbs that are ingested. Eat these carbs at night when insulin sensitivity has gone down, and the muscles soak them all up.
If you're not weight lifting, then the third key is just to cut out carbs all together. Strict high fat; moderate protein diet and ultra low carbs. Like between 20-40 max per day. The body will use up the carbs you have stored through the week (since you aren't lifting and cycling the carbs out daily).
Then at the end of the week, eat carbs from like 4-10 pm and refill the muscles as well as spike hormone levels. Then stop eating carbs for the next week. Rinse and repeat.
Key 1 - Skip carbs at breakfast and lunch.
Key 2 - Lift weights to use muscles stored glycogen and ready the for uptake of carbs at night.
Key 3 - If you don't lift weights, cut out carbs entirely through the entire week, then eat a fuck load at night at the end of the week to restart the system.
This system doesn't really fit for elite athletes as the amount of work they put their bodies through is constantly cycling carbs out so they don't really store that easily. Their bodies are fine tuned for turn and burn.
Want an example to prove this works and cutting calories isn't needed? I'll use myself.
I had some major injuries over the last few years and just started being a fatass. Eating what I wanted when I wanted it and stopped lifting entirely as that's how I got my injuries. Instead of learning that I was putting my body through too much with how much I was lifting and scaling back, I just stopped everything entirely. Gained a fuck load of weight.
This summer I decided it had gone too far and got back at it.
Lift Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday at about 40% of the intensity I used to. Decided to have carbs once a week as I'm focused on fat loss over muscle gain. Doing body scans to track.
Eat a fat
I've been tracking, and on average every week, I'm eating 2,500-2,800 calories a day.
From June 1st to September 1st, dropped 20 pounds. Muscle mass actually went up by 5 pounds so in total it was 25 pounds of fat loss without cutting calories, just cutting carbs and dialing back my lifting intensity since I wouldn't have the constant carbs to fuel my workouts.
*end counter-rant*
TL
Did you get this shit from bodybuilding.com? I mean it sounds[/i] smart, but it's like 90% broscience. Don't get me wrong, there are nuggets of truth in there, and the fact that you even care enough to learn all that, and you're disciplined enough to lift regularly, makes you healthier than 90% of people, but a lot of what you said is drivel.
Obviously what I said was intentionally simplified, but you on the other hand, are overthinking.
You're right that:
1. You should limit carbs. To 30-40%, not less. Carbs are good for restoring glycogen, but is less filling than protein and fat. Most people eat too much wheat and sugar, overfilling on carbs.
2. Weight lifting does help. Not just because working out burns calories, but because having more muscle mass you burn more calories even when doing nothing.
"The majority of Americans consume far too many carbs. What they fail to realize is those excess carbs are stored as fat." - This is true.
"The body assumes it's in starvation mode and after 12 hours switches to conserve fat." - This is BS. The body will not consume muscle mass while there are fat stores available. However[/i] if your muscles are getting strenuous exercise they will break down, and you need to adjust your diet accordingly to make sure you're getting enough protein and carbs for them to build themselves up again. You will always lose a little muscle mass when you're losing weight, but it can be mitigated pretty well by getting enough protein and rest. "Starvation mode" is a bodybuilding myth up there with "cardio stealz my gainz brah".
"But if you do body composition scans you'll see that it's a blend of body fat as well as muscle mass." - Again, same as above. You will always lose some muscle mass when you lose weight, especially if you're active. If you're active I would make sure to eat at least one meal per day, and getting enough protein, but the body will ALWAYS use fat stores before it begins burning mucle tissue for energy. The muscle mass you're losing is because you use your muscles, and muscles break down when you use them. And you always use them. Hence you always lose muscle. It just grows back stronger with enough of the right nutrients and rest. Of course, on a caloric deficit you will not get enough nutrients, and you will lose a little muscle, but THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT. But you can limit muscle loss by making sure you at least get enough protein and rest.
"Intermittent fasting is on the right track, but after 12 hours of fasting your body again starts to consume it's own muscle mass[/b]." - If you read everything above you should now realize how insanely wrong this is. This is a classic bodybuilding myth perpetrated by meatheads scared of gainz goblins. The body does NOT consume muscle mass for energy unless it has completely depleted both its glycogen and fat stores first. Seriously. This is a myth that exists because muscles are ALWAYS breaking down as you use them, then build themselves up with nutrients and rest. Like I said above. That's literally all that exercise is at the fundamental level. Basically, if you break down your muscles through heavy exercise, and don't build them up again with nutrients and rest, you then haven't regained the muscle mass you lost by exercising. Fasting alone didn't kill the muscle mass, it's the combination of lifting and fasting that did. Fasting alone will not break down muscle at that rate.
"The body wakes up in a fat burning state." - Duh. The body is in a fat burning state as long as your glycogen stores are empty. That's why fasting is effective (in addition to being an easier way of limiting calories than actually counting them).
Sorry if I'm being an asshole right now. It's cool that you put this much effort into being healthy, and you have the keys down even though you're overthinking it.
Lose weight: Empty glycogen stores, burn fat.
Gain muscle: Break it down through exercise, then build it up stronger by getting enough rest and nutrients.
Don't lose muscle: Make sure you get enough protein and rest. Carbs also help recovery from exercise.
And lastly, always adjust calories and macros for activity/exercise level. I guess that's what I forgot to add, because I was saying that exercise isn't necessary if your only goal is to lose weight.
longduckdong
New Fish
Fetters