My body MY CHOICE

[RaceBannon]

Adding to Creepy's logic-based explanation is the fact that premature babies commonly survive at ever more shorter gestation periods than in 1973

Bingo. Someone gets it. Viability is a moving target. Personhood is not.

Not an item for state choice. Law of the land. We're a country or we're not.

I'm not even a pretend lawyer but doesn't the constitution leave to the state that which is not enshrined as a federal responsibility?

I agree that the democrats have used state's rights for slavery to Jim Crow to ignoring Federal immigration law

Slavery was left to the states originally but Crow and immigration were not

Before Roe many state's had legislated abortion as legal. The Supremes let that stand

My folks got married late and had kids late especially for the 50's. I was in grade school and my parents were mid 40's when mom got pregnant again. She had a miscarriage and our concern was for her not the lost brother or sister. Of course I'm a sociopath so that helps

Anyway the only hospital in town was catholic so I doubt she got a secret abortion. Just lost the kid

I may have a point or I may not

 

[hardhat]

Even if roe v wade is overturned (not likely) there will be workarounds

 

[HHusky]

One million you heartless bastards.
https://www.elle.com/culture/a12445676/the-leftover-embryo-crisis/

 

[hardhat]

 

[creepycoug]

I get tired of the media fueled abortion debate but how is limiting it to the first 20 weeks unreasonable?

20 weeks is way too long. 12 should be the max. Hell France only allows 10 weeks.

Allow 0 weeks. I didn't think about abortion that much until I had kids. Could never imagine killing them. If you can you need help.

I think a decent compromise is to allow it but restrict it to 8-12 weeks.

I can't call killing a child a compromise because we cut some time off. A compromise is have the kid and put it up for adoption.

Sleddy is right on this one. Can’t compromise a murder of an innocent person. That’s non-sense when you really think about it. It’s a person or it’s not. Or draw me a line that is at least thought provoking. So far I’ve seen none.

Miss a period and take a pill and have a miscarriage. I don't have a problem drawing the line there. [/b]

I do. Adherence to the uterus is a version of the spatial location argument. Who cares where it is? Extending that logic, aborting 10 seconds before birth is ok and 10 seconds after is not. Adherence is a version of the viability argument, which is also nonsense. That's silly. What matters is that x and y got together at conception and the human flag dropped. From that point on, it's just a matter of cooking time.

 

[creepycoug]

Adding to Creepy's logic-based explanation is the fact that premature babies commonly survive at ever more shorter gestation periods than in 1973

Bingo. Someone gets it. Viability is a moving target. Personhood is not.

Not an item for state choice. Law of the land. We're a country or we're not.

I'm not even a pretend lawyer but doesn't the constitution leave to the state that which is not enshrined as a federal responsibility?

I agree that the democrats have used state's rights for slavery to Jim Crow to ignoring Federal immigration law

Slavery was left to the states originally but Crow and immigration were not

Before Roe many state's had legislated abortion as legal. The Supremes let that stand

My folks got married late and had kids late especially for the 50's. I was in grade school and my parents were mid 40's when mom got pregnant again. She had a miscarriage and our concern was for her not the lost brother or sister. Of course I'm a sociopath so that helps

Anyway the only hospital in town was catholic so I doubt she got a secret abortion. Just lost the kid

I may have a point or I may not

Upvoted out of respeck, but I don't care about what the SCOTUS does or does not do. A flawed institution, as we know. The constitution surely protects the life of an innocent person under one or more theories of jurisprudence.

Here, at conception, we have a person deserving of the same constitutional protections enjoyed even by a child of immigrants like me. It's that simple. It will never be the case that you can murder someone in cold blood in Oregon and not in Washington (although if there were ever a state that would try to go that far off the rails, it would be our nutty brothers to the south). We know that's nonsense. Ergo, abortion in Oregon but not in Texas is also nonsense.

It's murder or it's not. It is. Therefore, law of the land. I rest my case.

 

[creepycoug]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

 

[HHusky]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

 

[creepycoug]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

 

[HHusky]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

 

[RaceBannon]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

 

[HHusky]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

You're confusing me or Creep with a different Communist, I believe.

 

[creepycoug]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

Nothing satirical about this my friend. I've been thinking about this since my undergraduate days. I even wrote a paper on it (who says a liberal arts education is a waste of time?). I've evolved in my thinking and can come to no other conclusion without insincere mental gymnastics.

You have a person because we all (at least the vast majority of us) agree it's a person at birth. Nobody has been able to meaningfully draw the line going backwards except for one point in time: conception.

So, have all the periods you want and don't worry about spilled milk. Those aren't people; they are cells. When they get together, they are a person. Period.

 

[RaceBannon]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

You're confusing me with a different Communist.

I was talking about creep

I'll go slower next time

 

[creepycoug]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?[/b]

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

Disappointed. On this issue, the religious right has it nailed. Nobody else does.

Think it's satire? Make an argument. You've already tried twice and failed, and it's not your fault. There is no argument. I've tried and been through them all.

Again, Sleddy is spot on here. He's the only one of the goon squad who understands this issue. Maybe Damone. But that's it.

 

[jecornel]

Dems do not want to discuss abortion in a debate. They want to keep the discussion very general. if a Republican has any brains they will force a dem to talk specifics and will get destroyed on the topic.

 

[creepycoug]

Dems do not want to discuss abortion in a debate. They want to keep the discussion very general. if a Republican has any brains they will force a dem to talk specifics and will get destroyed on the topic.

Agreed. Way to go Little Jimmy Cornel

 

[RaceBannon]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?[/b]

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

Disappointed. On this issue, the religious right has it nailed. Nobody else does.

Think it's satire? Make an argument. You've already tried twice and failed, and it's not your fault. There is no argument. I've tried and been through them all.

Again, Sleddy is spot on here. He's the only one of the goon squad who understands this issue. Maybe Damone. But that's it.

I can't both make an argument and fail to make an argument

Make up your mind

I'm part of the religious right which is why I know that an abortion won't send you to hell. Gossip is a sin. Sin is sin

Jesus is the answer friend

Washes away all the sin

 

[creepycoug]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?[/b]

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

Disappointed. On this issue, the religious right has it nailed. Nobody else does.

Think it's satire? Make an argument. You've already tried twice and failed, and it's not your fault. There is no argument. I've tried and been through them all.

Again, Sleddy is spot on here. He's the only one of the goon squad who understands this issue. Maybe Damone. But that's it.

I can't both make an argument and fail to make an argument

Make up your mind

I'm part of the religious right which is why I know that an abortion won't send you to hell. Gossip is a sin. Sin is sin

Jesus is the answer friend

Washes away all the sin

Still disappointed. I didn't say you failed to make an argument. I said, or meant, that you made one and failed ... in the argument itself.

Not talking about going to hell. That's for Almighty to decide. Better hope the Catholics are right on that one too. Don't feel bad; I rely on penance myself for all the shitty things I do.

I expect you to see this for what it is. There are limits to what we can do in the name of social engineering. If there are no such limits, I have a few ideas about how to eliminate the welfare state.

 

[RaceBannon]

Sorry to have interrupted your weepy, sentimental circle jerk. The point stands. We have an entire fertility industry that includes freezing pre-born human life. Papists are right, I hear. What is to be done?

So long as those frozen persons are not discarded and are eventually given the chance to develop in the/a womb, I see no issue here.

Discarding them would be murder of Holocaust proportions. Can't do it.

I believe they get murdered if you don't pay the storage fees.

Then those people should be held to full account. I would not take the death penalty off the table either.

Do the others know it's satire?

You mean from the guy that thinks the religious right is a threat more than the leftist gaia religion?[/b]

Nooooo

Only you are smart enough to see the ruse

Disappointed. On this issue, the religious right has it nailed. Nobody else does.

Think it's satire? Make an argument. You've already tried twice and failed, and it's not your fault. There is no argument. I've tried and been through them all.

Again, Sleddy is spot on here. He's the only one of the goon squad who understands this issue. Maybe Damone. But that's it.

I can't both make an argument and fail to make an argument

Make up your mind

I'm part of the religious right which is why I know that an abortion won't send you to hell. Gossip is a sin. Sin is sin

Jesus is the answer friend

Washes away all the sin

Still disappointed. I didn't say you failed to make an argument. I said, or meant, that you made one and failed ... in the argument itself.

Not talking about going to hell. That's for Almighty to decide. Better hope the Catholics are right on that one too. Don't feel bad; I rely on penance myself for all the shitty things I do.

I expect you to see this for what it is. There are limits to what we can do in the name of social engineering. If there are no such limits, I have a few ideas about how to eliminate the welfare state.

No man will be justified by the law. It is by faith that we are saved. Having achieved salvation by faith do you now return to the law?