TierbsHsotBoobs
New Fish
You would also have to ignore the significant statistical evidence that suggests that he's a juicer.
MarinersFS
- Thread starter dhdawg
- Start date
You would also have to ignore the significant statistical evidence that suggests that he's a juicer.
Tequilla
Active poster
It's FS to say that Beltre isn't a potential HOFer without taking a look at what his numbers actually are. He's got a chance to get to 500 HRs. He'll end up having a top 20 amount of doubles in his career. His glove is/was elite. The steroid rumors and whatnot will dog any player that has played in the last 20 years.
Beltre was never the problem with the Mariners.
Everybody creams their sweatpants over Kyle Seager hoping that he'll put up more or less 30 and 100. Beltre did that. Yet, because he hit 48 HRs the year before coming to Seattle, everybody looked at that as what he should do EVERY year. Beltre's more or less shown over his career that he's more or less a 30 and 100 guy. That's who he is as a hitter.
It's not hard to make an argument that Beltre may be one of the Top 5 3B to ever play the game.
Beltre was never the problem with the Mariners.
Everybody creams their sweatpants over Kyle Seager hoping that he'll put up more or less 30 and 100. Beltre did that. Yet, because he hit 48 HRs the year before coming to Seattle, everybody looked at that as what he should do EVERY year. Beltre's more or less shown over his career that he's more or less a 30 and 100 guy. That's who he is as a hitter.
It's not hard to make an argument that Beltre may be one of the Top 5 3B to ever play the game.
allpurpleallgold
New Fish
Possibly the worst post I've ever read. And I read death2ducks posts.
D
[Deleted User]
Guest
What about PLSS Redskins poasts?
dnc
New Fish
Juicer or not, he will have a HOF caliber resume, which is pretty much all you can say about anyone these days. You also have to consider he's been a phenomenal defensive 3B for most of his career.
Contrary to the popular narrative, he was worth every penny the M's paid him, unlike just about every other high priced free agent they've signed in the past 10 years.
allpurpleallgold
New Fish
His career OPS is .812. Which is good for 365th all time. Top 5 third baseman of all time.
Tequilla
Active poster
If he stopped playing today, he's a top 10 3B for sure. He's still got a few years to accumulate. Hard to say for sure where he'll end up ... but he'll end up somewhere in that discussion point.
If you want to look at a career OPS of .812, that's fine. How much of that is tied to the fact that he got to the big leagues at a super young age and that 2 of the parks where he played most of his career (Dodger Stadium and Safeco Field) are far from being hitter parks?
Beltre's a comfortable punching bag for most people that like to blame his contract and his "lack" of production in those years as why the Mariners weren't successful. Bottom line though is that he was the furthest thing from the Mariners problems over those years.
If you want to look at a career OPS of .812, that's fine. How much of that is tied to the fact that he got to the big leagues at a super young age and that 2 of the parks where he played most of his career (Dodger Stadium and Safeco Field) are far from being hitter parks?
Beltre's a comfortable punching bag for most people that like to blame his contract and his "lack" of production in those years as why the Mariners weren't successful. Bottom line though is that he was the furthest thing from the Mariners problems over those years.
allpurpleallgold
New Fish
He's Robin Ventura.
CuntWaffle
New Fish
Yup, I was just about to say there is a better chance for water being dry than Guti being healthy.
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dnc
New Fish
Not a bad comp, actually. Beltre has 65.1 career WAR to Ventura's 56.8. Surprisingly, Ventura actually gets more value from his defense, so even if you don't trust defensive statistics Beltre comes out as the superior player.
The biggest difference is that Ventura is done while Beltre should have another 2 or 3 solid seasons in him. Beltre should end up in the 74-80 range in WAR, which is going to put him a couple orders of magnitude ahead of Ventura. If Beltre does hit 75ish, he'll be a lock for eventual inclusion into the Hall, baring strong steroid evidence. My guess is that over time the guys like Bagwell who are being kept out based purely on statistical suspicion will get in. Beltre as well.
Look at their stats, WAR, and defensive WAR. Beltre is far superior. I bet Beltre has another .300, 30 HR season this year too for another 5 in the WAR category. I don't know why you are underestimating Beltre. His last 3 years for the M's, he hit 25, 26, 25 HR's. If he played for Boston, Texas, or Chicago (like Ventura) then, he probably would have hit at least 30 HR's in those seasons.
TierbsHsotBoobs
New Fish
I can't believe how many fucking stupid poasters in this thread take Beltre's numbers at face value with respect to his Hall of Fame chances.
Dude was more obvious about his juicing than Edgar Martinez was.
A lot of them are juicing. Pitchers too. To speculate is fucking stupid.