Mariners Baby!
- Thread starter CuntWaffle
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FireTheJanitor
New Fish
Favorite moment of Game 1 is Springer wearing that pitch on the hand 
Favorite moment of Game 1 is Springer wearing that pitch on the hand
I wanted an out there but part of me was cheering
It’s better to have him banged up. He’s a dangerous hitter when he’s on.
CuntWaffle
New Fish
Amazing game today. Castillo is a dog.
Favorite moment of Game 1 is Springer wearing that pitch on the hand
I wanted an out there but part of me was cheering
It’s better to have him banged up. He’s a dangerous hitter when he’s on.
That one is going to hurt tomorrow for sure.
Rhe amazing thing to me is that a guy can ever get beat with stuff like that.
CuntWaffle
New Fish
Favorite moment of Game 1 is Springer wearing that pitch on the hand
I wanted an out there but part of me was cheering
It’s better to have him banged up. He’s a dangerous hitter when he’s on.
That one is going to hurt tomorrow for sure.
Rhe amazing thing to me is that a guy can ever get beat with stuff like that.
100 MPH fastball with strong arm run and 90 mph change up with blow up sink. Then you chop their head off with a graveyard slider. Fucking ridiculous.
Then what is your reward for getting him out of the game? Andres Munoz 103 MPH fastball with slash yard tail and a 95 mph slider. What. The. Fuck.
FireTheJanitor
New Fish
Favorite moment of Game 1 is Springer wearing that pitch on the hand
Favorite moment of Game 2 is Springer dying? on the field
He has outings like that because his fastball is just something to show but isn't a reliable strike or out pitch. If he had even fair command over his fastball he'd all but eliminate bad outings.
He should look at what Gilbert did last season. His breaking stuff wasn't reliable so he focused on locating his fastball and threw it like 65% of the time. He became a hell of a pitcher in the process and that was with a fastball nowhere near as crazy as what Munoz has.
CuntWaffle
New Fish
1.0.3. With tail. What.The.Fucking.Fuck.
Fishpo31
Active poster
Couple things (speculating)...2 days in a row, on the big stage. His slider is being called the best pitch in the game right now. 103 not withstanding, he's a two-pitch guy, and MLB hitters can hit 103 IF they are sitting on it. 2 pitches means for hitters, you pick one and if you are right, don't miss it. The slider looks identical to the FB out of his hand, at 90-93. If you sit slider and get the heater, no shot, and vise-versa. It is a guessing game, which is why you see so many guys with 97+ go top shelf, and there are a million foul balls. The hitters are good enough, with their "2 strike emergency hack" to repeatedly foul that shit off. I read he was throwing almost 60% sliders, at the behest of the M's analytics guys...you can only do that with the big FB to back it up.
I'm surprised it's only 60%. Tjat seems reasonable to me. I wanted to know but hadn't gotten around to looking it up. It just shows that I've watched a limited sample.
Fastballs have been few and far between when I have watched though. I've seen him throw one out of 13 pitches in a game where he was scuffling. It's obvious that he doesn't have confidence in it in tough spots.
I'm not proposing he flip it or even change the ratio. He Golbert example was simply to show that a good fastball, located well, can be a do it all pitch. Munoz has something different rhan a good fastball to boot. I'm just saying his fastball command is an "opportunity for improvement" going forward.
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Fishpo31
Active poster
He has gone really slider-heavy. He's been overthrowing the FB, jerking it to glove-side. His effectiveness is in that, at 98-103, the hitters have to gear up for it. There is no perceptible difference between his FB and slider mechanically, arm-speed, release point. They can't pick it up until it is too late, hence the swing-over-the-top of the slider. It is FB up, slider down. The have to respect the FB, which makes the slider so deadly. If I were prepping hitters to face Munoz, I would tell them to spit on the FB, and sit slider. I would be shocked if that isn't what the Astros will try to do...
I was once told by a very respected guy that the entire game is predicated off of the hitter's fear of getting beat by a FB inside. It makes sense to me.
When I was working, I saw Edgar face a young kid from Tampa. Four 100+ FB's, the third one at his dome. He struck out, looking bad (for Edgar). Next night, after one FB, Edgar took him off the facing of the upper deck. The kid (and catcher) didn't trust the breaking pitch. I saw it, and so did Edgar...
MLB pitchers and their stuff are so advanced now that I'm pretty out of my depth, but I still cling in part to my own philosophy. That is that a guy with an overpowering fastball, no matter how good his breaking stuff, is risking damage every time he speeds up their bats by throwing it.
Never throw offspeed stuff to bad hitters is what I preached as a coach and even as a teenager who caught about a third of games and did some pitching. Nothing annoyed me more than seeing a #9 hitter being gifted a slow breaking ball down the middle and spoiling what should be an automatic out.
Obviously we're not talking about teenage knuckle curves here, but nasty, 90+mph sliders. It's not equivalent. I'd just like to see guys like Brash and Munoz get better FB command because they shouldn't even need to show those sliders so heavily against weak bats. Dot the corners at 98+ and make it quick.
Never throw offspeed stuff to bad hitters is what I preached as a coach and even as a teenager who caught about a third of games and did some pitching. Nothing annoyed me more than seeing a #9 hitter being gifted a slow breaking ball down the middle and spoiling what should be an automatic out.
Obviously we're not talking about teenage knuckle curves here, but nasty, 90+mph sliders. It's not equivalent. I'd just like to see guys like Brash and Munoz get better FB command because they shouldn't even need to show those sliders so heavily against weak bats. Dot the corners at 98+ and make it quick.
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Fishpo31
Active poster
Did a little search...I'm not an analytics guy (I'm OLD), but I found numbers to back up what I've been seeing.
Weighted On -Base-Average Allowed by Pitch Type:
Four seam FB: .350
Sinker: .349
Cutter: .315
Change up: .292
Slider: .269
Curveball: .263
Splitter: .257
Hitting approaches always focus on Fastball-First...They sit on it as much as possible, and if you are in the big leagues, you can hit the fastball, even 100+.
In looking at pitcher spray charts, for a good/great performance, the fastballs are grouped in specific areas:
Four-seam FB: Outside edge, and top of the zone. Miss in the zone, it gets hit, often hard
Two seamer/Sinker: Bottom of the zone, down and in for same-side, swing-back and on-to-off the plate for opposite side, depending on shape.
The life on the 4-seamer has changed it a lot...Castillo's 4 seamer runs arm side hard, his 2 seamer sinks.
I agree that Brash and Munoz need to tighten up the FB command, a lot like Gilbert / Kirby...when they can dot the outside corner, they are really tough to square up. The out pitch is the slider, but they gotta paint with the FB to get there.
Your comment about bad hitters reminds me of what my dad told me when I was about 12...The Three Nevers: Never play cards with a man named Doc, never eat at a place called Mom's, and never throw a change up to shitty hitter.
Weighted On -Base-Average Allowed by Pitch Type:
Four seam FB: .350
Sinker: .349
Cutter: .315
Change up: .292
Slider: .269
Curveball: .263
Splitter: .257
Hitting approaches always focus on Fastball-First...They sit on it as much as possible, and if you are in the big leagues, you can hit the fastball, even 100+.
In looking at pitcher spray charts, for a good/great performance, the fastballs are grouped in specific areas:
Four-seam FB: Outside edge, and top of the zone. Miss in the zone, it gets hit, often hard
Two seamer/Sinker: Bottom of the zone, down and in for same-side, swing-back and on-to-off the plate for opposite side, depending on shape.
The life on the 4-seamer has changed it a lot...Castillo's 4 seamer runs arm side hard, his 2 seamer sinks.
I agree that Brash and Munoz need to tighten up the FB command, a lot like Gilbert / Kirby...when they can dot the outside corner, they are really tough to square up. The out pitch is the slider, but they gotta paint with the FB to get there.
Your comment about bad hitters reminds me of what my dad told me when I was about 12...The Three Nevers: Never play cards with a man named Doc, never eat at a place called Mom's, and never throw a change up to shitty hitter.
