Kennedy Lewis, 2019 3* WR, Melissa (HS), TX (Offered)

[HillsboroDuck]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

 

[Ballz]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[HillsboroDuck]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

You are a total dumbfuck.

Everyone knows this. But my all means keep shitpoasting for the two people who haven't figured it out yet.

 

[Ballz]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

You are a total dumbfuck.

Everyone knows this. But my all means keep shitpoasting for the two people who haven't figured it out yet.

That's what I thought. You got nothing man. Talking out your ass for no reason. I know I'm right and you know I'm right. Don't disagree just to disagree @dnc. You always end up looking stupid.

 

[Passion]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

And so did a million guys you never heard of. I prefer he have good hands.

 

[HillsboroDuck]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

You are a total dumbfuck.

Everyone knows this. But my all means keep shitpoasting for the two people who haven't figured it out yet.

That's what I thought. You got nothing man. Talking out your ass for no reason. I know I'm right and you know I'm right. Don't disagree just to disagree @dnc. You always end up looking stupid.

I'm not disagreeing just to disagree. I'm disagreeing because you're wrong.

Body catching happens. It doesn't happen because it's coached or taught or planned.

Shawn Marion hit threes while shooting from his navel. Doesn't mean suggesting a kid with Marion's shot has terrible form is bad analysis.

 

[HillsboroDuck]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

And so did a million guys you never heard of. I prefer he have good hands. [/b]

That makes two of us

 

[GOAT]

You can make educated guesses on whether a recruit has hands or not based on film but you never really know. I thought Ty Jones’ were amazing based on film but so far hes shown to have inconsistent hands, which means they’re shitty.

Also, please close this thread for fucks sake.

 

[Ballz]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

You are a total dumbfuck.

Everyone knows this. But my all means keep shitpoasting for the two people who haven't figured it out yet.

That's what I thought. You got nothing man. Talking out your ass for no reason. I know I'm right and you know I'm right. Don't disagree just to disagree @dnc. You always end up looking stupid.

I'm not disagreeing just to disagree. I'm disagreeing because you're wrong.

Body catching happens. It doesn't happen because it's coached or taught or planned.

Shawn Marion hit threes while shooting from his navel. Doesn't mean suggesting a kid with Marion's shot has terrible form is bad analysis.

Like I've already explained. Body catching is not bad form. It's a different type of catching form that is utilized at the highest level. What you might hear from some nobody, white high school coach who never played at a high level about proper catching technique is outdated and false. You don't think all these pro receivers have WR coaches? Why are none of these NFL WR coaches coaching guys to only catch the ball with their hands? Perhaps because they've studied the all time great receivers and saw that many of them caught the ball with their body. It's not even debatable. Like I've already explained, there are situations in which body catching is advantageous over hands catching. It's easy as fuck for a DB to see a WR raise his hands in the air on a go route and punch the ball out. In contrast, a WR running a go and then allowing the ball to drop to his numbers and catching it with his body at the very last second gives the DB no warning when the ball is coming and no time to react.

Is Tyler Lockett not an extremely sure handed wide receiver? And yet he catches the ball with his body all the time. Is he not better than Doug Baldwin who's a strict hands catcher? Does anybody give fuck how either WR catches the ball because they're both very consistent at catching it?

 

[Tequilla]

He caught more than he dropped

There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.

I want them both. Doesn’t mean we have to pretend like this kid is Joe Ngata or in the upper tier of WR’s that’s where the disconnect is. 6’4 4.4 hell yeah sign him up and hope Pete can work his magic. But there’s a reason a 6’4 4.4 WR isn’t being sought after by the big programs.

And let's be honest, it's not like he's from somewhere in the middle of nowhere ... the DFW area has a bit of attention to it in recruiting.

 

[Tequilla]

He caught more than he dropped

There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.

Can we at least agree on a few basic points?

1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.

2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.

2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.

3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.[/b]

4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.

Exactly

If you show me film of a shooter and ask me to estimate what that player shoots from 3, I don't need to see the results to get an estimate just the form. Yes, there are always outliers but there are things that you look for when you evaluate if a player is smooth or natural at anything. Catching a football is in the same category.

The good thing is that you can work at improving it ... and that's great.

But as with anything, there are guys that are just unfairly natural at it and no matter how much you practice you aren't getting to that level.

 

[dirtysouwfdawg]

So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.

Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.

Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is.[/b] This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.

This is literally the biggest reason body catching is an issue, because you are waiting longer to take control of the ball and are giving defenders more time to hit you and separate you from the football without drawing a flag.

This is receiving 101.

And Terrell Owens had terrible hands.

Yeah tell that to Michael Irvin and the countless other NFL receivers, past and present, who catch with their body. This is fucking hilarious. You're really going to try to lecture me about fucking playing receiver as some message board idiot when some of the best receivers to ever play the game don't agree with you.

Wow just wow."TO had terrible hands" meanwhile you're probably some fat fuck sitting on your couch and aren't even good enough to carry that man's jock when it comes to athletic accomplishment and knowledge of the position. Second most receiving yards ever yet he had "terrible hands". Are you trying to challenge @Mosster47 for dumbest poster ever. If so bravo, you're really giving him a run for his money.

You're not waiting longer to control the ball you idiot. The ball is caught and controlled instantly instead of being caught with your hands and then needing to be pulled in and tuck away before the hit. You're not good at this and you're embarrassing yourself.

You are a total dumbfuck.

Everyone knows this. But my all means keep shitpoasting for the two people who haven't figured it out yet.

That's what I thought. You got nothing man. Talking out your ass for no reason. I know I'm right and you know I'm right. Don't disagree just to disagree @dnc. You always end up looking stupid.

I'm not disagreeing just to disagree. I'm disagreeing because you're wrong.

Body catching happens. It doesn't happen because it's coached or taught or planned.

Shawn Marion hit threes while shooting from his navel. Doesn't mean suggesting a kid with Marion's shot has terrible form is bad analysis.

I wanted to gouge my eyes out every time I saw him shoot... back when the nba didn’t suck balls.

 

[RaceBannon]

Before Owens caught the game winner against the Packers in that legendary early round playoff game he had like 8 drops. It was a miracle that Young went to him and HE CAUGHT IT HE CAUGHT IT OWENS CAUGHT IT

That's why TO was bawling on the sidelines after

 

[creepycoug]

Before Owens caught the game winner against the Packers in that legendary early round playoff game he had like 8 drops. It was a miracle that Young went to him and HE CAUGHT IT HE CAUGHT IT OWENS CAUGHT IT

That's why TO was bawling on the sidelines after

[popcorn gif] waiting for @StrongArmCobra 's five page response.

 

[Dennis_DeYoung]

ITT: how to catch.

Also ITT: catching is better done with bodies than hands.

 

[HuskyClaws]

Someone on doogman is saying that Texas gave him a commitable offer tonight, so he's canceling his official visit. Texas had a WR flip to Baylor today, so I was kind of anticipating this happening.

 

[Crawfish]

Someone on doogman is saying that Texas gave him a commitable offer tonight, so he's canceling his official visit. Texas had a WR flip to Baylor today, so I was kind of anticipating this happening.

Fire Lubick now. Wtf is he doing.

 

[KrunkJuice]

He was going to Baylor or Texas anyways. If its true good luck to the kid.

 

[dhdawg]

Someone on doogman is saying that Texas gave him a commitable offer tonight, so he's canceling his official visit. Texas had a WR flip to Baylor today, so I was kind of anticipating this happening.

roof is butthurt that someone posted her info on DM

 

[RDR]

Someone on doogman is saying that Texas gave him a commitable offer tonight, so he's canceling his official visit. Texas had a WR flip to Baylor today, so I was kind of anticipating this happening.

You think you know why the visit was canceled. What if you were wrong?

What if there was a reason it might have been canceled on UW's end?

You truly don't ever really know what's going on unless you're in the room watching it unfold...

Recruiting........