Joseph Ngata, 5* 2019 WR, Folsom, CA (WE FUCKED THE POOCH)
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oregonblitzkrieg
New Fish
Lubick is a duck troll trying to make the huskies look bad.
Another thread bites the dust
Tequilla
Active poster
Taj Davis isn't Joseph Ngata … so let's get that straight.
Tell me what these individuals have proven at the CFP level:
Ty Jones = marginal at best impact as a true freshman
Terrell Bynum = Redshirted and have yet to see anything that suggests to me that he's anything I should be betting on
Alex Cook = see Bynum
Austin Osborne = I can see something in him but on a really good team I'm seeing him as a 2WR or 3WR ... guys like Ngata are #1s
Marquis Spiker = probably somewhere closer to Osborne than Bynum and Cook
Lowe = IF a WR he'll be at the Chico role ... more likely given that we've sucked at RB recruiting I could see us moving him there
The PROBLEM that you fail to understand is that for your premise to be successful for 2020 REQUIRES us to land 3 4* WRs (or better) next year. When you have one bad year, it creates a ton of pressure the next year. You are right that when you suck for multiple years it's a massive problem (that's the Strausser/Pease level).
What you fail to comprehend is that when you get a guy like Ngata you instantly make EVERYBODY ELSE BETTER[/b] because you slot people correctly. That stuff really matters.
Let's look at 2020 WR recruiting right now and guys that are seemingly our top targets/options:
Johnny Wilson: Per 24/7 he's the #2 WR in the nation and a Top 15 guy. He's from SoCal. His Crystal Ball predictions are USC and UCLA. Everybody not named USC and UCLA is viewed as having COOL interest. Think he's leaving LA for school? Probably not.
Demond Demas: Per 24/7 he's the #3 WR in the nation and a Top 20 guy. He's also from Houston. His listed WARM schools are Alabama, Texas, and Texas A&M. You think he's even going to visit UW? Probably not. Next.
Gee Scott Jr: Per 24/7 he's the top local WR (Top 100 recruit and the 12th WR in the nation) on our board right now yet we haven't offered[/b]. He's been offered by EVERYBODY else that is recruiting him. At this point, his INTEREST LEVEL is noted as being COOL
Jalen McMillan: The 19th best WR in the country per 24/7 and he's from Fresno. The good news is that we've offered him (so that's good). More good news is that he doesn't seem to have any favorites right now. Bad news is the rest of the conference (save for UCLA) has offered him. So 4 WRs in we've finally found somebody that I'd give us at least a puncher's chance for.
Chad Johnson: Roughly a Top 200 guy and the 32nd best WR in the country from 24/7. Doesn't have an offer for us. Only apparent offers that he has are from ASU, Oregon St, and Florida Atlantic. Doesn't seem normal for a guy like this to not have better offers at this point.
Matt Sykes: Hawaiian kid that's rated similar to Chad Johnson. His only offers are from Hawaii and Fresno. There's already a Crystal Ball for him to Stanford and they haven't offered. In other words, I'm going to assume that IF he gets into Stanford academically, he's going to Stanford.
Do you want me to keep going? Are you sensing a theme yet? EVERY SINGLE 2020 WR RECRUIT RIGHT NOW AT BEST HAS AN OFFER FROM UW AND HAS A LEVEL OF INTEREST DESCRIBED AS COOL.[/b]
So yes, to say that I'm not yet optimistic about 2020 WR recruiting would be very fair. And on top of that, we're probably looking at trading out our WR coach in early 2019 because 1) player development hasn't been great (sound like Pease?), 2) we got blown the fuck out of the water for Ngata, and 3) we're not even moving the fucking needle on 2020 WR recruiting right now.
But you're right, I'm a fucking idiot.
Tell me what these individuals have proven at the CFP level:
Ty Jones = marginal at best impact as a true freshman
Terrell Bynum = Redshirted and have yet to see anything that suggests to me that he's anything I should be betting on
Alex Cook = see Bynum
Austin Osborne = I can see something in him but on a really good team I'm seeing him as a 2WR or 3WR ... guys like Ngata are #1s
Marquis Spiker = probably somewhere closer to Osborne than Bynum and Cook
Lowe = IF a WR he'll be at the Chico role ... more likely given that we've sucked at RB recruiting I could see us moving him there
The PROBLEM that you fail to understand is that for your premise to be successful for 2020 REQUIRES us to land 3 4* WRs (or better) next year. When you have one bad year, it creates a ton of pressure the next year. You are right that when you suck for multiple years it's a massive problem (that's the Strausser/Pease level).
What you fail to comprehend is that when you get a guy like Ngata you instantly make EVERYBODY ELSE BETTER[/b] because you slot people correctly. That stuff really matters.
Let's look at 2020 WR recruiting right now and guys that are seemingly our top targets/options:
Johnny Wilson: Per 24/7 he's the #2 WR in the nation and a Top 15 guy. He's from SoCal. His Crystal Ball predictions are USC and UCLA. Everybody not named USC and UCLA is viewed as having COOL interest. Think he's leaving LA for school? Probably not.
Demond Demas: Per 24/7 he's the #3 WR in the nation and a Top 20 guy. He's also from Houston. His listed WARM schools are Alabama, Texas, and Texas A&M. You think he's even going to visit UW? Probably not. Next.
Gee Scott Jr: Per 24/7 he's the top local WR (Top 100 recruit and the 12th WR in the nation) on our board right now yet we haven't offered[/b]. He's been offered by EVERYBODY else that is recruiting him. At this point, his INTEREST LEVEL is noted as being COOL
Jalen McMillan: The 19th best WR in the country per 24/7 and he's from Fresno. The good news is that we've offered him (so that's good). More good news is that he doesn't seem to have any favorites right now. Bad news is the rest of the conference (save for UCLA) has offered him. So 4 WRs in we've finally found somebody that I'd give us at least a puncher's chance for.
Chad Johnson: Roughly a Top 200 guy and the 32nd best WR in the country from 24/7. Doesn't have an offer for us. Only apparent offers that he has are from ASU, Oregon St, and Florida Atlantic. Doesn't seem normal for a guy like this to not have better offers at this point.
Matt Sykes: Hawaiian kid that's rated similar to Chad Johnson. His only offers are from Hawaii and Fresno. There's already a Crystal Ball for him to Stanford and they haven't offered. In other words, I'm going to assume that IF he gets into Stanford academically, he's going to Stanford.
Do you want me to keep going? Are you sensing a theme yet? EVERY SINGLE 2020 WR RECRUIT RIGHT NOW AT BEST HAS AN OFFER FROM UW AND HAS A LEVEL OF INTEREST DESCRIBED AS COOL.[/b]
So yes, to say that I'm not yet optimistic about 2020 WR recruiting would be very fair. And on top of that, we're probably looking at trading out our WR coach in early 2019 because 1) player development hasn't been great (sound like Pease?), 2) we got blown the fuck out of the water for Ngata, and 3) we're not even moving the fucking needle on 2020 WR recruiting right now.
But you're right, I'm a fucking idiot.
Neighbor2972
Active poster
What we really need to do is ship Pounds down to Fresno on a nice Grad transfer, and medically retire Chin on the basis that is unsafe for him to play football at 160 lbs
Ballz
New Fish
Yes, you are a fucking idiot.
1. It doesn't fucking matter that the young WR's haven't done shit yet. What matters is they have the talent we are looking for. They have to be coached and developed and get experience. It's a fucking process. You don't just over recruit the WR position just because the talent you recruited the past two classes hasn't fucking played yet! That's some retarted ass Sark shit. You have to have roster balance. You have to trust the talent evaluations you did the past two classes and develop those guys.
2. Taj Davis is a fucking baller. Who are you to put a limit on his potential? Ngata is a fucking rare man-child who won't get much bigger and faster. He already has an NFL body and NFL speed. But after two years in the weight room so will Taj Davis. So STFU.
3. Getting Ngata would not make our other WR's better. Does Taylor Rapp make Isaiah Glichrist better? No.
4. You literally just said a guy who red shirted hasn't shown you anything. That's the dumbest fucking statement I've ever seen on this board.
5. We haven't even started really recruiting the 2020 class of WR's yet you idiot. We don't know who the top targets are and who is most interested yet. You're gonna go by what the 247 database says in terms of who's "cool" and "warm" towards UW when 1. That shit hasn't been updated yet for the 2020 recruits and 2. The 247 guys are lazy as fuck with that shit? Like I said, 2020 4* WRs will line the fuck up to commit to UW as we just saw with Pittman and Delgado. WR recruiting is no longer a fucking problem for this staff and missing on a fucking 5* WR to a national title winner doesn't change that.
6. Holy fuck you're dumber than I thought.
Tequilla
Active poster
How many different ways do I have to prove that you just don't get it @StrongArmCobra ??? I mean, it's really getting tiring exposing your stupidity. At least the average idiot makes me consider taking the gloves off … you're just a sparring partner that doesn't hit back.
1) So what I'm reading is that results don't matter and potential does. That sounds like some Quook level BS. Let's talk about coaching and development. Was there anything you saw last year ON THE FIELD that suggested that the existing WR coaching was actually doing a good job of developing players? Did anybody really break out? Did anybody really step up when it was next man up with the injuries? Instead, it was basically Dante + Bryant (before getting injured) + YUCK. Also, to be clear, I'm not advocating to recruit Sark/Slick levels of WRs. What I am suggesting is that you need to look at the WRs that you're recruiting and have a realistic assessment to them. Not everybody is going to pan out. That's true for most positions. So when you're in a position where you need some cream to rise to the top, the more competition that you can put in that room to push guys to get better the better the position group as a whole will be.
2) I'm not limited Taj Davis and his potential. I hope he's a baller. But I also know that Ngata will be a baller from Day 1 on campus. If I can get a guy that is an instant plug and play or a guy that needs to develop I'm taking the plug and play every single day of the week. Inherent in development is the risk that the player DOESN'T develop. Good development obviously goes a long way in ensuring that the risk factor goes down. But there's always risk. It's just how much risk do you have.
3) The fact that you even made your statement confirms your stupidity and shows that you don't understand team sports at all. It's all about what you ask people to do. If you put an elite player on your roster, you move your existing #1 option down to #2, #2 to #3, and so forth. Do you know else that means? That means that your prior #1 instead of being guarded by the opposition's #1 it's not guarded by their #2. Do you understand that trickle down effect? This is why having elite players matters. Not only do they have obvious skills that can't be taught and drawn attention, but they also create easier opportunities for their teammates.
4) Again, you're showing your ignorance. The reason I can say that a guy that has RS hasn't shown me anything is because I watched them not only last Fall heading into camp but also in the Spring. I see how guys are progressing and how they are able to play against our DBs. If I see a guy struggling to win reps against our depth, then I'm fairly confident in saying that they aren't ready to contribute at a meaningful level. This is what happens when a) you spend the time paying attention to what is going on and b) you actually have an idea of what you're looking at.
5) So UW isn't starting their 2020 recruiting yet. That's great. Do you know who is? A lot of our competition. We're allowing other schools to get head starts on us in recruiting because we're fucking asleep at the wheel. So let's get back to the whole concept of actions being greater than words. Your words tell me that there's nothing to worry about in 2020 recruiting. Actions in 2019 tell me that we just got blown out for an elite recruit and arguably have made questionable decisions on other recruits because we completely misread and misplayed our hand. Which of those paths makes more sense to believe? I'll go with the "there's reason for concern" path because that's what the OBSERVABLE EVIDENCE suggests.
1) So what I'm reading is that results don't matter and potential does. That sounds like some Quook level BS. Let's talk about coaching and development. Was there anything you saw last year ON THE FIELD that suggested that the existing WR coaching was actually doing a good job of developing players? Did anybody really break out? Did anybody really step up when it was next man up with the injuries? Instead, it was basically Dante + Bryant (before getting injured) + YUCK. Also, to be clear, I'm not advocating to recruit Sark/Slick levels of WRs. What I am suggesting is that you need to look at the WRs that you're recruiting and have a realistic assessment to them. Not everybody is going to pan out. That's true for most positions. So when you're in a position where you need some cream to rise to the top, the more competition that you can put in that room to push guys to get better the better the position group as a whole will be.
2) I'm not limited Taj Davis and his potential. I hope he's a baller. But I also know that Ngata will be a baller from Day 1 on campus. If I can get a guy that is an instant plug and play or a guy that needs to develop I'm taking the plug and play every single day of the week. Inherent in development is the risk that the player DOESN'T develop. Good development obviously goes a long way in ensuring that the risk factor goes down. But there's always risk. It's just how much risk do you have.
3) The fact that you even made your statement confirms your stupidity and shows that you don't understand team sports at all. It's all about what you ask people to do. If you put an elite player on your roster, you move your existing #1 option down to #2, #2 to #3, and so forth. Do you know else that means? That means that your prior #1 instead of being guarded by the opposition's #1 it's not guarded by their #2. Do you understand that trickle down effect? This is why having elite players matters. Not only do they have obvious skills that can't be taught and drawn attention, but they also create easier opportunities for their teammates.
4) Again, you're showing your ignorance. The reason I can say that a guy that has RS hasn't shown me anything is because I watched them not only last Fall heading into camp but also in the Spring. I see how guys are progressing and how they are able to play against our DBs. If I see a guy struggling to win reps against our depth, then I'm fairly confident in saying that they aren't ready to contribute at a meaningful level. This is what happens when a) you spend the time paying attention to what is going on and b) you actually have an idea of what you're looking at.
5) So UW isn't starting their 2020 recruiting yet. That's great. Do you know who is? A lot of our competition. We're allowing other schools to get head starts on us in recruiting because we're fucking asleep at the wheel. So let's get back to the whole concept of actions being greater than words. Your words tell me that there's nothing to worry about in 2020 recruiting. Actions in 2019 tell me that we just got blown out for an elite recruit and arguably have made questionable decisions on other recruits because we completely misread and misplayed our hand. Which of those paths makes more sense to believe? I'll go with the "there's reason for concern" path because that's what the OBSERVABLE EVIDENCE suggests.
Ballz
New Fish
1. You fucking idiot! The WR's on the fucking field last season were Pease recruits! Pounds, Baccellia, Fuller. etc. Those guys are from 3-4 classes ago and since then the WR recruiting has taken a massive step forward. As evidenced by Pittman and Delgado wanting to be a part of this class WR recruiting has not dropped off. Have we gotten a 5* stud like Ngata yet? No, but getting 4* guys is no fucking problem for this staff.
2. All I hear is you fucking crying about UW not getting Joe Ngata. Fucking get over it. And no, Ngata is not plug and play. Yes, he would play as a true Freshman at UW but he would need time to develop and learn our complicated offense like every other WR. It's not that fucking easy to come in and be a superstar when the playbook is way thicker than a high school playbook and you're going against the best secondary in the nation everyday in practice.
3. Sure, Ngata would help take pressure off of the other WR's that are on the field. Doesn't mean Austin Osborne or Marquis Spiker or Taj Davis won't be that #1 guy. Ngata is not on some completely different level than the guys we've brought in. Sure he's a 5* talent. As I said last year, Osborne is a 5* talent as well. Spiker was very close to being rated a 5* and broke the California state record for TD receptions. These guys are not slop compared to Ngata. They have talent as well.
4. You're not at all Fall practices and Spring practices. Most are closed to fans and some are even closed to the media. You don't know dick about who the fuck is ready to play or not. All of our young WR's like Bynum, Cook, etc. would look a lot better against most other secondaries in the nation. The point is, we have brought in the caliber of WR talent we want the past two classes. If we don't have scholarships available for more than one or two WR's this class too fucking bad. That's recruiting. You have to develop the guys to already recruited. Nobody is winning shit over recruiting the WR position.
5. We are not behind on 2020 recruits. We've offered guys. Most of them will not focus on recruiting until after their Junior season. It's the same shit every year dumbass you should be used to it by now.
6. We didn't misread shit you idiot! We realized "holy fucking shit, all these top 2019 offensive and defensive lineman are really feeling us so we need to have scholarships available for them later in the cycle. We'll pass on Delgado and pass on Pittman and go all in on Ngata because we feel good about the WRs we brought in the past two classes and don't lose any after this season. If we don't get Ngata we'll likely be done at WR unless another elite WR wants in down the road because we need to save scholarships for these LINEMAN." DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND. Say it with me WE WANT TO LOAD UP ON ELITE LINEMAN.
Quote paragraphs of bullshit to reply with paragraphs of bullshit
Tequilla
Active poster
Dear Fucking Allah you are fucking stupid
1) Yes, JAGs played last year. I get that. Do you not understand that if we were playing JAGs and the "talented" players that we recruited couldn't pass said JAGs on the depth chart that they are therefore JAGs themselves until they PROVE that they are NOT JAGs? Is it really that fucking hard to understand? I feel like @Dennis_DeYoung right now wanting to get in my car and crash it into a brick wall at how difficult it is for you to apply real basic logic to ANYTHING.
2) Let's hypothetically say I take everything you say at face value, if that's the case, then I'll bitch at the fact that our playbook is so complicated that we can't get freshman on the field. Is that true for all other programs? Don't think so. I'd go as far as saying what you are arguing is an even bigger problem than missing on Ngata.
3) I'm optimistic that guys like Jones, Osborne, and Spiker will be Top 3 round picks at WR when they go to the NFL. The difference is that Ngata has the chance to be a Top 5 guy. He's a Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, etc. type of WR. Those guys don't grow on trees. None of the guys we have are like that. Did you not pay attention to how Clemson beat Alabama to win the National Title? A good chunk of that is having receivers that won 50/50 balls. The more you can throw talent on the field the more likely you can find a mismatch. If you find the mismatch then you have a chance to be successful. Go back to when we played Alabama, we couldn't create mismatches. John Ross couldn't just go run by Alabama's DBs. That shit didn't work because guess what, they have fast guys as well, are well coached, etc.
4) You're right, I'm not at every practice. But I attend a good number of the ones that are open. By that regard, I'm as well versed in what I'm seeing as anybody else not tied into the program (and by the way, most that are tied into the program aren't going to give you the truth about what they are seeing anyway because it's going to be scrubbed with what Pete wants communicated). It's not about whether our young WRs look better against OTHER secondaries because that's not the point. The point is that we have an elite DB core. If we're competing at the national level, we're competing against comparable DB groups. So if you're struggling against our DBs, there's a good chance that you're going to be struggling against other elite DB groups. My comments aren't about whether or not we're competitive enough to beat Oregon State. It's are we beating USC. Are we beating Stanford. Are we beating an elite SEC school like Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, etc.. It's beating Clemson. It's beating Ohio State. Is it THAT hard to understand that?
5) Recruiting for elite players is starting earlier and earlier. QB recruiting at the elite levels usually ends with verbals during the summer of their junior seasons. Top players are getting recruited hard as freshman. We can be oblivious to that fact or update our approach to be consistent with reality. The longer we wait to recruit kids the more we're giving our competition the opportunity to get a leg up.
6) I'm all for recruiting linemen ... that's great. We'll load up this year and then basically pass next year? That doesn't necessarily work out that well in the long-term because you have unbalanced positional groupings. I'm all for getting the best class that we can get. If you don't understand the concept of trying to ensure that you're getting good class balance then you don't get roster construction at all. No doubt you have to be a bit flexible as strengths/weaknesses and available opportunities change each year. But recruiting an unbalanced number in any position just kicks the can down the road a bit and you will have to deal with what results from that in the future.
1) Yes, JAGs played last year. I get that. Do you not understand that if we were playing JAGs and the "talented" players that we recruited couldn't pass said JAGs on the depth chart that they are therefore JAGs themselves until they PROVE that they are NOT JAGs? Is it really that fucking hard to understand? I feel like @Dennis_DeYoung right now wanting to get in my car and crash it into a brick wall at how difficult it is for you to apply real basic logic to ANYTHING.
2) Let's hypothetically say I take everything you say at face value, if that's the case, then I'll bitch at the fact that our playbook is so complicated that we can't get freshman on the field. Is that true for all other programs? Don't think so. I'd go as far as saying what you are arguing is an even bigger problem than missing on Ngata.
3) I'm optimistic that guys like Jones, Osborne, and Spiker will be Top 3 round picks at WR when they go to the NFL. The difference is that Ngata has the chance to be a Top 5 guy. He's a Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, etc. type of WR. Those guys don't grow on trees. None of the guys we have are like that. Did you not pay attention to how Clemson beat Alabama to win the National Title? A good chunk of that is having receivers that won 50/50 balls. The more you can throw talent on the field the more likely you can find a mismatch. If you find the mismatch then you have a chance to be successful. Go back to when we played Alabama, we couldn't create mismatches. John Ross couldn't just go run by Alabama's DBs. That shit didn't work because guess what, they have fast guys as well, are well coached, etc.
4) You're right, I'm not at every practice. But I attend a good number of the ones that are open. By that regard, I'm as well versed in what I'm seeing as anybody else not tied into the program (and by the way, most that are tied into the program aren't going to give you the truth about what they are seeing anyway because it's going to be scrubbed with what Pete wants communicated). It's not about whether our young WRs look better against OTHER secondaries because that's not the point. The point is that we have an elite DB core. If we're competing at the national level, we're competing against comparable DB groups. So if you're struggling against our DBs, there's a good chance that you're going to be struggling against other elite DB groups. My comments aren't about whether or not we're competitive enough to beat Oregon State. It's are we beating USC. Are we beating Stanford. Are we beating an elite SEC school like Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, etc.. It's beating Clemson. It's beating Ohio State. Is it THAT hard to understand that?
5) Recruiting for elite players is starting earlier and earlier. QB recruiting at the elite levels usually ends with verbals during the summer of their junior seasons. Top players are getting recruited hard as freshman. We can be oblivious to that fact or update our approach to be consistent with reality. The longer we wait to recruit kids the more we're giving our competition the opportunity to get a leg up.
6) I'm all for recruiting linemen ... that's great. We'll load up this year and then basically pass next year? That doesn't necessarily work out that well in the long-term because you have unbalanced positional groupings. I'm all for getting the best class that we can get. If you don't understand the concept of trying to ensure that you're getting good class balance then you don't get roster construction at all. No doubt you have to be a bit flexible as strengths/weaknesses and available opportunities change each year. But recruiting an unbalanced number in any position just kicks the can down the road a bit and you will have to deal with what results from that in the future.