The "would he?" question is certainly valid
Is it time fire Scott Servais?
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
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The "would he?" question is certainly valid
This turned into a very interesting thread
HFNY
Well-known poster
The end-of-season press conference sure made it sound like they won't go after Ohtani since he is a "big name". He'd fit perfectly at DH for 2024 and then he could be the 4th or 5th starter in 2025, which would allow them to trade a starter to fill any hole that would open up.
I'm not even sure if they'll go after Bellinger since he easily could be considered a big name.
HFNY
Well-known poster
And if they go the trade route, who should they target? Andrew Vaughn of the White Sox would be a good fit but he would cost at least Hancock, a highly rated A or A+ level prospect, along with including France.
I would love Josh Naylor from the Indians but I doubt Cleveland will part with him unless it was a King's ransom (Hancock, Miller / Woo, a highly rated prospect, and France).
I would love Josh Naylor from the Indians but I doubt Cleveland will part with him unless it was a King's ransom (Hancock, Miller / Woo, a highly rated prospect, and France).
It's time to fire the Seattle Mariners. Should have let them move to Tampa. This franchise is a perpetual loser and will never be shit without a big dick owner. The team would be better off being owned by Bezos.
I didn't watch or listen. I gleaned enough from watching part of the Locked On show and some headlines to know that I didn't want to hear it. It's no time to throw my remote through the TV when I have so much other shopping to do right now.
Dipoto didn't impress from what I gathered.
Fishpo31
Active poster
It wasn't good, but they can't go in there and say "We fucked the whole thing up", or "The players that we are paid to acquire, evaluate and develop sucked". And most definitely NOT "Ownership has tied our hands on bringing in stud free-agents". They have to tip-toe around all of it, even if, in varying degrees, some or all of it is true.
I thought Dip danced around it pretty well, in that he referenced the big ticket guys they have brought in in the past. That they brought in the wrong guys at the right time, or the right guys at the wrong time is a given. Any urgency on his part in the kick-ass presser is a direct shot at ownership, which is not particularly conducive to job security, present or future.
The fact is, pitchers want to come here, for the same reason hitters don't. The weather is a deal, and the travel thing is a factor as well. I would guarantee none of the big 3 shortstops considered Seattle last year. They picked where they wanted to be, and they are all in the playoffs. Moogs (?) will say that they were wise to stay with JP, but flip him to 2B and bring in a big-time SS and whadda ya got then?
Once guys get here I think they like it, but getting them to sign on the line that is dotted is hard.
The line-up is set by analytics, not by Servais. So is the bullpen usage. Yes, there is discussion and push back, but that is why you see winning, successful managers get fired. Baseball guys will be happy winning with analytics, and will push back hard if it doesn't work. It is much more comfortable to explain failure with numbers than it is to say, "Well, Joe had a really strong gut feel for Bob in that situation"...
They had a competitive roster that was thinned on the back end because of injuries. Ray and Marco going down blew out the bullpen. Imagine Woo, Miller, Hancock, et al, in the pen this year. Losing Murfee (and Murphy) didn't help down the stretch. Murphy and Cal switching off catching and DH'ing was pretty good, for a while.
My wish list: DH, 1B, LH pen arm...
IMO, it comes down to ownership...do they want to win a title, or are they happy selling tickets? It is a question asked since 95, and the band plays on...
I thought Dip danced around it pretty well, in that he referenced the big ticket guys they have brought in in the past. That they brought in the wrong guys at the right time, or the right guys at the wrong time is a given. Any urgency on his part in the kick-ass presser is a direct shot at ownership, which is not particularly conducive to job security, present or future.
The fact is, pitchers want to come here, for the same reason hitters don't. The weather is a deal, and the travel thing is a factor as well. I would guarantee none of the big 3 shortstops considered Seattle last year. They picked where they wanted to be, and they are all in the playoffs. Moogs (?) will say that they were wise to stay with JP, but flip him to 2B and bring in a big-time SS and whadda ya got then?
Once guys get here I think they like it, but getting them to sign on the line that is dotted is hard.
The line-up is set by analytics, not by Servais. So is the bullpen usage. Yes, there is discussion and push back, but that is why you see winning, successful managers get fired. Baseball guys will be happy winning with analytics, and will push back hard if it doesn't work. It is much more comfortable to explain failure with numbers than it is to say, "Well, Joe had a really strong gut feel for Bob in that situation"...
They had a competitive roster that was thinned on the back end because of injuries. Ray and Marco going down blew out the bullpen. Imagine Woo, Miller, Hancock, et al, in the pen this year. Losing Murfee (and Murphy) didn't help down the stretch. Murphy and Cal switching off catching and DH'ing was pretty good, for a while.
My wish list: DH, 1B, LH pen arm...
IMO, it comes down to ownership...do they want to win a title, or are they happy selling tickets? It is a question asked since 95, and the band plays on...
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HFNY
Well-known poster
Maybe they'll trade for someone like Andrew Vaughn or Eloy Jimenez from the White Sox. Jimenez would make more sense from the White Sox side since he'd be a salary dump (due $13.3 million next year and a $3 million buyout after the 2024 season) and they could get back prospects like Hancock, Aidan Smith, along with a bat like Ty France.
If they want Vaughn (cheaper and controllable for longer), they'd have to swap out Smith and include someone like Jonatan Clase.
To me, DiPoto comes off as a guy who would rather be able to tell you how smart he is by making a bunch of obscure trades for reclamation projects, versus signing a big ticket guy that takes no imagination to put together.
I recognize ownership has the final say, but he is an arrogant prick who says that the fans should be thanking him for not making the playoffs.
I recognize ownership has the final say, but he is an arrogant prick who says that the fans should be thanking him for not making the playoffs.
Fishpo31
Active poster
In reference to "Old School" vs. analytics, an MLB.com writer posted that in Buck Showalter's exit interview after being tarmac'ed by the Mets, Buck referred the analytics department as, "a bunch of cymbal-clanging monkeys"...also, he was forced to play Vogelbach by the GM as they crashed and burned...strange tims we live in...
HFNY
Well-known poster
What's Chinteresting is that the Met's GM just stepped down.
I do wonder if there is tension between Servais, Dipoto, and Stanton. Servais didn't do his best job this year and was 6-14 in extra inning games while Dipoto doesn't seem to have much margin for error from Stanton. I thought Dipoto had thread the needle by acquiring Teo Hernandez and not having to pay him too much while AJ Pollock has always mashed LHP and at $8 million to platoon with Kelenic in LF and part-time DH, a reasonable cost. Wong had a good year in 2022 and the Cards threw in some money to take the sting out of his salary. I wonder if Dipoto had wanted to a different position player or two but Stanton blocked him on money. Meanwhile, Stanton probably feels like Dipoto's budget is good enough and that he and Servais just didn't figure it out.
I am guessing Stanton is giving them each 1 more year and saying to use the money better (Pollock and Wong cost nearly $20 million) rather than increasing the budget. In an ideal world, he'd let Dipoto spend another $20 - $25 million but he probably won't which means Dipoto could make a QO to Teo Hernandez, lose him to FA, get the comp pick, and then trade for a very good 1B and / or DH with prospect capital. The big draft haul makes it more palatable to do it that way.
I'd love to see the M's make a trade with the White Sox by getting Andrew Vaughn at 1B and Eloy Jimenez at DH (and very occasional RF) for Ty France, Gabriel Gonzalez, Emerson Hancock, and Tyler Locklear.
I would love to see them go after Bellinger or Alonso but both are probably too expensive for ownership since each will want a 3 or 4 year deal and at least $22 million per.
I do wonder if there is tension between Servais, Dipoto, and Stanton. Servais didn't do his best job this year and was 6-14 in extra inning games while Dipoto doesn't seem to have much margin for error from Stanton. I thought Dipoto had thread the needle by acquiring Teo Hernandez and not having to pay him too much while AJ Pollock has always mashed LHP and at $8 million to platoon with Kelenic in LF and part-time DH, a reasonable cost. Wong had a good year in 2022 and the Cards threw in some money to take the sting out of his salary. I wonder if Dipoto had wanted to a different position player or two but Stanton blocked him on money. Meanwhile, Stanton probably feels like Dipoto's budget is good enough and that he and Servais just didn't figure it out.
I am guessing Stanton is giving them each 1 more year and saying to use the money better (Pollock and Wong cost nearly $20 million) rather than increasing the budget. In an ideal world, he'd let Dipoto spend another $20 - $25 million but he probably won't which means Dipoto could make a QO to Teo Hernandez, lose him to FA, get the comp pick, and then trade for a very good 1B and / or DH with prospect capital. The big draft haul makes it more palatable to do it that way.
I'd love to see the M's make a trade with the White Sox by getting Andrew Vaughn at 1B and Eloy Jimenez at DH (and very occasional RF) for Ty France, Gabriel Gonzalez, Emerson Hancock, and Tyler Locklear.
I would love to see them go after Bellinger or Alonso but both are probably too expensive for ownership since each will want a 3 or 4 year deal and at least $22 million per.
I don’t care too much about big ticket free agent moves. They are often overrated and most fail.
My main thing is the strikeouts. Suarez, Kelenic, Teo, Julio, and Raleigh. They all strike out at a high rate. None of them walk a ton either. It kills rallies. Let Teo go and I’m still trading Kelenic. If we were mashing HR’s like the Braves, the strikeouts would be fine, but we are not.
The starting pitching has the potential to win in the playoffs. Make minor changes, get more bullpen arms, and getting 4A type position players that have specific skill sets that are needed and are on the cusp.
Spending a bunch of money does not often work, but it does get the fans excited. I don’t see the impact free agents available this year.
My main thing is the strikeouts. Suarez, Kelenic, Teo, Julio, and Raleigh. They all strike out at a high rate. None of them walk a ton either. It kills rallies. Let Teo go and I’m still trading Kelenic. If we were mashing HR’s like the Braves, the strikeouts would be fine, but we are not.
The starting pitching has the potential to win in the playoffs. Make minor changes, get more bullpen arms, and getting 4A type position players that have specific skill sets that are needed and are on the cusp.
Spending a bunch of money does not often work, but it does get the fans excited. I don’t see the impact free agents available this year.
Ohtani. 'Nuff said on that.
Fishpo31
Active poster
The disastrous presser, paired with Dip's walk-back, has forced their hand, IMO...The butts in the seats have been restless since 95, and they need to make a BIG splash here to keep the $$$ rolling. Dip's mistake was hammering on 'the Process"...that is "in house" talk, not public-facing. Nobody wants to hear about the labor pains, just show me the freaking baby...
Upon further review, this may be a calculated move by Dip to put pressure on ownership...wouldn't be the first time. He is a smart guy (despite his continued attempts to remind us), and he knows that his tenure has reached critical mass...
IF they can get Ohtani, re-sign Teo. If not, go after Bellinger, let Teo walk, and find a competent replacement for France.
For me, you aren't going to trade first-round tools under control and get equal value in return. Bellinger was a dead-ass out for 3 years, and apparently has figured it out, at age 28. I am not willing to trade Kelenic at age 24 for sub-optimal return, and risk seeing 2-3 years of Canzone and Marlowe flanking Julio...
Teo and Geno are living proof of the old adage that "You can't walk off the island"...(Yes, I do know that Venezuela is not an island, but still...). Cal is Cal, and I wouldn't trade 15 HR's for 75 less strike outs and a .240 average. JK hit 10 points above league average, and has ceiling. You could make a case that he was on pace for 20+ HR before his time out, and hit .259 against LHP.
Bottom line for me: they have to swing big, and make contact...
The Ms have a good core but they want to wait for someone or a couple of someones, like Kelenic for example, to really bust out and be the big add that puts it over the top. That would be amazing but it's the least likely way.
Their pitching staff has had two in house starters really bust out (Gilbert, Kirby) and they spent money on two guys (Ray, Castillo) to fill it out. They've been remarkably unwilling to add one good position player or a combo of two slightly cheaper ones at a similar cost to what they paid for pitching. I didn't want them to shell out $300mil for Trea Turner, but they should be willing to add $200mil over 5 years for two guys.
Ohtani only makes sense if you can get him and also make a significant upgrade at least one other position. This lineup needs another JP at a minimum...high on base, low strikeouts, .800 ops... plus Ohtani or it needs 2-3 significantly higher ops guys in place of France, Suarez and Teoscar.
If Kelenic can help bring a guy or two like that then I'm fine with moving him. If he can't then he's a fine player and he can stay for my part, but hoping for him to be something he hasn't yet been is dumb. Hope is not a strategy. Plus he's a high K% guy at his best and doesn't help raise the team OBP%. They need someone else.
Their pitching staff has had two in house starters really bust out (Gilbert, Kirby) and they spent money on two guys (Ray, Castillo) to fill it out. They've been remarkably unwilling to add one good position player or a combo of two slightly cheaper ones at a similar cost to what they paid for pitching. I didn't want them to shell out $300mil for Trea Turner, but they should be willing to add $200mil over 5 years for two guys.
Ohtani only makes sense if you can get him and also make a significant upgrade at least one other position. This lineup needs another JP at a minimum...high on base, low strikeouts, .800 ops... plus Ohtani or it needs 2-3 significantly higher ops guys in place of France, Suarez and Teoscar.
If Kelenic can help bring a guy or two like that then I'm fine with moving him. If he can't then he's a fine player and he can stay for my part, but hoping for him to be something he hasn't yet been is dumb. Hope is not a strategy. Plus he's a high K% guy at his best and doesn't help raise the team OBP%. They need someone else.
I believe they're the only club to never make a Whirled Series. They're the Lions and Cardinals of MLB.
Fishpo31
Active poster
That is the kit-and-kaboodle...The baseball business, summed up. You are evaluating players based on what you think they can be [/i][/b][/b][/b][/i], not based on who they are. They are ALL going to suck, over periods of time. Julio sucked, Cal sucked, a lot of people wanted JP out of here last year. I get what you are saying, and refer back to the Adam Jones / Adrian Belte / Varitek HOF...no one knows when to fish or cut bait, and the M's history is to cut bait at the honey hole...