How bad was that crappy offense holding Herbert back?
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NorthwestFresh
New Fish
He has some real receivers in Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and TEcHunter Henry and an absolute cannon for an arm that he never got to use at UO with the CJ runs up the middle all day long. This TD to Allen was a 30-yard laser and he’s running to his left.
https://twitter.com/fantasymex/status/1330650540141928450?s=21
https://twitter.com/fantasymex/status/1330650540141928450?s=21
No difference from Phillip Rivers
Still lose by one score in the last two minutes. Or occasionally win
Herbert is the real deal. The Chargers are the Chargers
Still lose by one score in the last two minutes. Or occasionally win
Herbert is the real deal. The Chargers are the Chargers
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Receivers. His receiving corp at Oregon was B average and they always had the drops.
What I wondered about was whether Herbert had the heart. It was hard to see at Oregon at times.
Everybody always knew he had the tools. That was evident his freshman year. The one that still stands out to me is the pass against Auburn when the defender his hitting him low at the knees and he is rocking back and finds the TE in the end zone ... what was that, 35 or so yards, and the throw was zipped high and away where the TE could just reach up and grab it ... that throw was all arm falling backwards. That's an arm.
RatherBeBrewing
New Fish
I agree with Creep, on him not having receivers and questions about his heart or whatever the fuck you want to call that it factor. Some players have the it factor but not the physical skill or vice versa. If you have both and the person is hard working enough and at the right fit you get superstars.
The NFL and everyone overanalyzed Herbert and ignored an incredible rare combination of arm talent in all aspects: velocity, rpm, placement, distance. You can get away with being an arm punter in college, in the NFL it’s a deal breaker.
That arm talent is worth a lot less when you spend most of your career with Dillon Mitchell as your star WR, instead of the combined 7 first round WRs Tua and Burrow had. He drilled Keenan Allen in the chest yesterday with a rocket on an anticipation throw, and one of the top WRs in the NFL barely made that play.
The offense of Arroyo was shit for showcasing him, true. It was made to be conservative, because 2nd and 6 works good enough to win. And it was also made to protect Herbert because Braxton Buttmeister traumatized everyone who saw him for life.
Herbert didn’t do himself any favors because 2% of the time he made the worst possible play. He still does it in the NFL. But a 22 year old that looks 16 becoming a better decision maker? Who would have thunk it. NFL scouts made the mistake of missing the forest for the trees, and convinced Joe Schmo that Herbert is the guy that throws at a defender or into the next area code more often than he makes a throw that like ten guys in the world can make.
Overall a massive win for Oregon and Cristobal. Recruits will love it. In a year or two everyone will forget anything negative some draft nerd wrote. If Herbert continues to play like this he will be a superstar and a household name.
The NFL and everyone overanalyzed Herbert and ignored an incredible rare combination of arm talent in all aspects: velocity, rpm, placement, distance. You can get away with being an arm punter in college, in the NFL it’s a deal breaker.
That arm talent is worth a lot less when you spend most of your career with Dillon Mitchell as your star WR, instead of the combined 7 first round WRs Tua and Burrow had. He drilled Keenan Allen in the chest yesterday with a rocket on an anticipation throw, and one of the top WRs in the NFL barely made that play.
The offense of Arroyo was shit for showcasing him, true. It was made to be conservative, because 2nd and 6 works good enough to win. And it was also made to protect Herbert because Braxton Buttmeister traumatized everyone who saw him for life.
Herbert didn’t do himself any favors because 2% of the time he made the worst possible play. He still does it in the NFL. But a 22 year old that looks 16 becoming a better decision maker? Who would have thunk it. NFL scouts made the mistake of missing the forest for the trees, and convinced Joe Schmo that Herbert is the guy that throws at a defender or into the next area code more often than he makes a throw that like ten guys in the world can make.
Overall a massive win for Oregon and Cristobal. Recruits will love it. In a year or two everyone will forget anything negative some draft nerd wrote. If Herbert continues to play like this he will be a superstar and a household name.
Tequilla
Active poster
Herbert's footwork was a mess at times in college ... it was at a level that Jack Lockner would have approved of
From what I've seen he's largely cleaned that up at the NFL level ... and the tools are showing themselves much more consistently.
As Race said though, the Chargers are the Chargers
From what I've seen he's largely cleaned that up at the NFL level ... and the tools are showing themselves much more consistently.
As Race said though, the Chargers are the Chargers
IPukeOregonGrellow
New Fish
The fundamental difference between last year and this year is shown in the tight end play.
After Breeland got hurt last year, Arroyo essentially doubled down on two tight end sets with Kampmoyer and Bay, forcing Kampmoyer in particular to run Breeland routes and running a way too high percentage of keeping 7 and 8 blockers in pass sets. The two repaid him with a combined ten catches and teams realized quickly the ball wasn’t heading in that direction at all.
Moorehead has been in the same situation, but instead of doubling down on what his depth pieces can’t do, he’s found ways to scheme converted defensive linemen open. Using simple routes where one defender essentially has to choose if he wants the QB to run the ball for 20 yards or the TE to take a screen pass that far. Kampmoyer put up more stats in the UCLA game than he did in all of 2019 for that reason and DJ Johnson did the same the two games before that.
Shough is a guy who’s going to spend a year on an NFL practice squad before heading off to the Saskatchewan Rough Riders, in part because every time he tries to throw the ball in the middle of the field high comedy ensues. But he’s throwing for over 10 yards per attempt and going to put up better numbers than Herbert because Moorehead actually has an offensive scheme.
After Breeland got hurt last year, Arroyo essentially doubled down on two tight end sets with Kampmoyer and Bay, forcing Kampmoyer in particular to run Breeland routes and running a way too high percentage of keeping 7 and 8 blockers in pass sets. The two repaid him with a combined ten catches and teams realized quickly the ball wasn’t heading in that direction at all.
Moorehead has been in the same situation, but instead of doubling down on what his depth pieces can’t do, he’s found ways to scheme converted defensive linemen open. Using simple routes where one defender essentially has to choose if he wants the QB to run the ball for 20 yards or the TE to take a screen pass that far. Kampmoyer put up more stats in the UCLA game than he did in all of 2019 for that reason and DJ Johnson did the same the two games before that.
Shough is a guy who’s going to spend a year on an NFL practice squad before heading off to the Saskatchewan Rough Riders, in part because every time he tries to throw the ball in the middle of the field high comedy ensues. But he’s throwing for over 10 yards per attempt and going to put up better numbers than Herbert because Moorehead actually has an offensive scheme.
IPukeOregonGrellow
New Fish
Why do you hate VAJ?
NorthwestFresh
New Fish
Shough will have to beat out Ty Thompson next year. Could be a Darron Thomas/Mariota situation where the clearly better QB is the back-up.
greenblood
New Fish
Mariota was never the backup to Thomas. Technically he was on roster, but he was redshirted so he wasn't actually active. It's going to be more difficult since the NCAA now allows for the four game rule.
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RatherBeBrewing
New Fish
Shough cannot throw over the middle unless the man is wide open or a shallow route, which I absolutely cannot understand given his accuracy on sideline throws. That, combined with occasional blitz indecision and a few head scratching throw choices per game are his faults now.
Duck fans overreact as bad as anyone. Name me one Duck QB that produced more total offense in his first three starts. Doesn’t even have to be conference games, feel free to use cupcakes. Since there are none you can list all the Oregon QBs that averaged 360 yards of offense for a three game stretch. Moorhead deserves a lot of that credit, but it’s not like all those past QBs only had Andy Ludwig or Arroyo calling plays.
Duck fans overreact as bad as anyone. Name me one Duck QB that produced more total offense in his first three starts. Doesn’t even have to be conference games, feel free to use cupcakes. Since there are none you can list all the Oregon QBs that averaged 360 yards of offense for a three game stretch. Moorhead deserves a lot of that credit, but it’s not like all those past QBs only had Andy Ludwig or Arroyo calling plays.
UCLA isn’t very good but this is their best team under CK.
And since you appear to be a pac12 aficionado you’ll know Arizona is on a 9 game losing streak all by around an average of 25 points. And they won’t win a game this season. They’re the worst team in this league.
But that’s really none of my business.
And since you appear to be a pac12 aficionado you’ll know Arizona is on a 9 game losing streak all by around an average of 25 points. And they won’t win a game this season. They’re the worst team in this league.
But that’s really none of my business.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
My fear is that this could be the first crack of daylight into a new reality in which Chip is not, in fact, done, and has that thing moving in the winning direction.
I would absolutely hate that because Chip's #1 weakness is recruiting. If UCLA starts winning, that weakness won't matter nearly as much as it does coaching most other places.
I hope it was a case of Oregon playing like shit and UCLA playing over their heads, which all teams do once or twice in a given season. But I am watching with some trepidation.
NorthwestFresh
New Fish
That’s true he Red-shirted but reports were he was kicking ass all camp but Chip didn’t want to bench Thomas. Thomas read the tea leaves and opted to leave UO for Arena football so he wouldn’t have been benched his senior season.
IPukeOregonGrellow
New Fish
Darron Thomas was closer to winning a Natty than Herbert or Mariota, and he had a less successful pro career than even Dakota Prukop and Bryan Bennett. Shough's arm talent is more slightly better Browning than slightly worse Herbert. The throw he made to Redd at the end of the first half against Wazzu, Herbert places into the end zone. But at the same point, he's been fairly accurate, has his reads down better than Burmeister ever did, and isn't afraid to run the damn ball. Better defenses are going to do a better job of forcing him to do things he's uncomfortable with, though.
I don't buy Thompson is coming in and easily stripping the starting job from him. I do buy that in 25 years he'll be more remembered the way Tony Graziani or Danny O'Neil are now as opposed to Akili Smith or Harrington.
backthepack
New Fish
He’ll die before he reaches stardom unfortunately it’s what the chargers do.