Has Hopkins been fired yet?
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1to392831weretaken
New Fish
6'5" Army Ranger and former college basketball player. The rest of us are nothing more than cowardly pussies.
Miley_Cyrus
New Fish
Hey @GreenRiverGatorz SAY IT TO HIS FACE!!!!
Tequilla
Active poster
@IceManLikeGervin
Why do I say hoops is dirtier than football? Besides the influence of the shoe companies (far bigger deal in hoops), the sheer numbers of the game in hoops dictates as much. When you're looking at a smaller number of pure difference makers combined with significantly lower scholarship limits (typical year is 6:1 or 7:1 football to basketball recruits), just means that the $$$ is being consolidated in the hands of the difference makers. Moreover, top players going through college and into the NBA are looking at lifetime earnings of in excess of $100M quite easily so everybody wants to get their hands into that cookie jar. In contrast, not only are the career lengths in the NFL far shorter compared to the NBA, but by and large the pay is far more distributed amongst the team such that while many get paid in the pros, the top earners don't even sniff what they do in the NBA. The exception to that rule would be ELITE QBs and that's a different category all by itself.
You're seriously throwing around claims of nepotism around walk on players? Moreover, this happens all over the place and is far from unique at UW. You make it sound like a walk on that is a coach's son/daughter is taking away opportunities from others. The life of a walk on is far from glamourous. It's actually dog shit for the most part where you put in a ton of work and nobody really gets to see it. Best case scenario it's giving these kids a crash course of the inner workings of a D1 program if they choose to pursue a career in coaching. Newsflash ... by being son's of coaches they are already significantly ahead of other kids if they decide to go down that path just by the fact that they get to talk to their parent about the career, etc. What's the biggest reward that they get by being on scholarship? Opportunity to eat as part of a training table? If they were provided scholarship opportunities and playing time when clearly they weren't capable of playing at the level they are playing, that'd be one thing. If a kid is a child of a coach and is clearly capable of playing for their parent, that's not nepotism in and of itself. It's a real interesting counter argument to claiming that it's ok to hire a recruit's parent, coach, etc. and that's on the level by saying that a coach's child being practice fodder without any scholarship resources attached is not. Just really strange logic.
Again, I don't know you so I don't know your experiences. I can understand how the term "rat ball" can and has been ignorantly used by some in the context of race. Anytime that happens that's wrong and people need to do better. Why would I know or care what the race of the person that founded Urban Dictionary was? Why should that even matter to me? Perhaps that's my ignorance, but the reality is that I don't give a shit what someone's race is because that's not how I look at or evaluate people. I judge based on merit. Personally, qualifying anything based on age, sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. as a descriptor of someone is just allowing for factors to be entered into the equation that are not primary attributes of evaluating a person, situation, etc.
When I was growing up there were a lot of different "message" related shirts that I would see/read and not only did they resonate, but they have stuck with me through life. One of them was this shirt:
So in that context, let's stop with the race card rhetoric. It's not a card that I play and it's highly unnecessary.
Why do I say hoops is dirtier than football? Besides the influence of the shoe companies (far bigger deal in hoops), the sheer numbers of the game in hoops dictates as much. When you're looking at a smaller number of pure difference makers combined with significantly lower scholarship limits (typical year is 6:1 or 7:1 football to basketball recruits), just means that the $$$ is being consolidated in the hands of the difference makers. Moreover, top players going through college and into the NBA are looking at lifetime earnings of in excess of $100M quite easily so everybody wants to get their hands into that cookie jar. In contrast, not only are the career lengths in the NFL far shorter compared to the NBA, but by and large the pay is far more distributed amongst the team such that while many get paid in the pros, the top earners don't even sniff what they do in the NBA. The exception to that rule would be ELITE QBs and that's a different category all by itself.
You're seriously throwing around claims of nepotism around walk on players? Moreover, this happens all over the place and is far from unique at UW. You make it sound like a walk on that is a coach's son/daughter is taking away opportunities from others. The life of a walk on is far from glamourous. It's actually dog shit for the most part where you put in a ton of work and nobody really gets to see it. Best case scenario it's giving these kids a crash course of the inner workings of a D1 program if they choose to pursue a career in coaching. Newsflash ... by being son's of coaches they are already significantly ahead of other kids if they decide to go down that path just by the fact that they get to talk to their parent about the career, etc. What's the biggest reward that they get by being on scholarship? Opportunity to eat as part of a training table? If they were provided scholarship opportunities and playing time when clearly they weren't capable of playing at the level they are playing, that'd be one thing. If a kid is a child of a coach and is clearly capable of playing for their parent, that's not nepotism in and of itself. It's a real interesting counter argument to claiming that it's ok to hire a recruit's parent, coach, etc. and that's on the level by saying that a coach's child being practice fodder without any scholarship resources attached is not. Just really strange logic.
Again, I don't know you so I don't know your experiences. I can understand how the term "rat ball" can and has been ignorantly used by some in the context of race. Anytime that happens that's wrong and people need to do better. Why would I know or care what the race of the person that founded Urban Dictionary was? Why should that even matter to me? Perhaps that's my ignorance, but the reality is that I don't give a shit what someone's race is because that's not how I look at or evaluate people. I judge based on merit. Personally, qualifying anything based on age, sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. as a descriptor of someone is just allowing for factors to be entered into the equation that are not primary attributes of evaluating a person, situation, etc.
When I was growing up there were a lot of different "message" related shirts that I would see/read and not only did they resonate, but they have stuck with me through life. One of them was this shirt:
So in that context, let's stop with the race card rhetoric. It's not a card that I play and it's highly unnecessary.
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Tequilla
Active poster
In many respects, I'll defer to other individuals when it comes to talking about the ills of Jody Wynn within her program.
You are correct that she signed a strong recruiting class for next year. You have also left out the fact that she's as persona non grata with local recruits as Hopkins.
Moreover, one recruiting class should not save someone's job when their job performance to date is epically bad.
Without going into too many details because I've done it elsewhere previously on Twitter, through 3 seasons Jody was 8-45 in the P12 conference during the regular season. That's EPICALLY bad.
Now, I'm a reasonable person and I'm ok looking at Jody's 5-13 season last year, combined with her recruiting success for the 2021 class and say that she's moving in the right direction. Problem is that so far this year she's 1-5 in conference with only one of the losses (to Wazzu) by single digits. The only conference victory is against a Cal team that hasn't won a single game.
And, if you want to put things in even more damning perspective, there's no job in the P12 conference for women's hoops that is worse than Washington State. It's a BAD job. Wazzu is 5-2 in conference this year and tied currently for 3rd place. Wazzu's coach, Kamie Ethridge, is currently in her 3rd season (so she's 1 year behind Jody. In Ethridge's first 2 seasons, the Cougs were 8-28 in conference play ... in other words she matched in 2 years Jody's win total in 3 years at a school with far less everything in terms of program attributes. If that's not a damning indictment on Jody, I don't know what is.
At the end of the day, the thing that you're continually failing to grasp in these discussions is that whether the discussion is about LoRo, Hop, or Wynn, the discussion of their performance isn't about anything other than their performance. It simply comes down to do you win or do you lose. There's absolutely ZERO reason why at the University of Washington that you can't consistently compete in the conference at a .500 or higher level and be at least a consistent threat to being in the NCAA Tournament. When coaches are in place that significantly underperform that standard and hit you with platitudes like "well, it's really hard to win at the University of Washington," my response is a firm "get the fuck out."
IceManLikeGervin
New Fish
You still provided no tenable facts why you consider NCAA basketball to be dirtier than NCAA football just an opinion based on a self serving point of view, pal.
Anyone can't just walk onto the UW MBB team. If Mike Hopkins and Dave Rice were not UW MBB coaches their sons would not currently be on the UW MBB team as walk ons. Nepotism played a part with both Griff Hopkins and Travis Rice being on the UW basketball team as walk ons. Like I posted before Travis transferred into the UW after his dad was named as an assistant coach but overlook that particular because it doesn't fit your narrative, friend. Even Stevie Wonder can see that through his Ray Charles Ray-Ban Aviators, fella.
You brought up the Urban Dictionary to define a definition of 'rat ball', friend. I just went a step further and showed you the source behind the Urban Dictionary. I used real life particulars related to the definition of the term 'rat ball' based on my experiences of hearing it used not an Urban Dictionary definition based on who knows what.
Save that color blind dry drama drag for someone who didn't grow up in America and just watched a racist MAGA movement led by Trump take over a large part of the Country, buddy. America is all about promoting stereotypes from its inception to its current manifestation. People who tend to reduce pointing out societal racism in its many forms to playing a card like it's a game are a part of the problem- mirror check. Even our societal conditioning has been conditioned.
IceManLikeGervin
New Fish
I'm not defending Jody 'I Don't See Color' Wynne.
Personally I didn't support her hiring at the time and still don't support her program which has many local HS recruits turned off from her basketball program just like Mike Hopkins has turned off many local HS recruits with his basketball program's direction. But with her program one can claim to see some light at the end of the tunnel in the near future while the same can't be said for Mike Hopkins and his program.
But she is almost the same position that LoRo was in in terms of a recent lack of success on the basketball court coupled with a highly touted Nationally ranked recruiting class coming in. Will she be fired or kept as hired? Time will tell...
Tequilla
Active poster
1) Why don't you learn how to spell Jody's name
2) You're the one defending Wynn from the standpoint of her recruiting ... you basically just parroted every single thing that I said about her program and tried to spin it off as your own. Moreover, if the view of UW Basketball is that you can't win without being successful in the local Greater Seattle market, then Jody's perfected the alienation as much as Hop has. Regardless of whether she signed a good class or not, the underlying metrics are all negative.
3) Jody's an easy termination than Hop due to a) Hop's at least produced results and b) relative sizes of the buyouts
IceManLikeGervin
New Fish
Tequilla
Active poster
I gave 3-4 different reasons for why hoops is dirtier than football on the whole. I referenced the shoe companies and their influence and to date the balance of the influence tied into hoops. Moreover, there's plenty of direct evidence tying both head coaches and assistant coaches into dirty recruiting. The underlying infrastructure in football is more centralized within schools and the players that are getting paid and the paper trail is much more nuanced than it is with hoops.
You're a rocket scientist by saying that not anybody can walk on to a college basketball team. Dynamite insight. You must think everybody here is a fucking idiot. There's preferred walk ons, there are walk ons that come via open tryouts, etc. Being a walk on doesn't provide you significant value. At no point have you identified any tangible benefit that Hopkins/Rice are getting by being walk ons and more importantly, any evidence that suggests that they are taking material opportunity away from anybody. Hopkins has played in 2 games for a total of 2 minutes. Rice has the same playing time this year as Hopkins (2 games, 2 minutes, 2 blowouts) and his career stats over the last 3 years are all in the same vein. The reality is that you're highlighting each of them because you're trying to sling mud on Hopkins. You can go through a who's who of college hoops coaches that have had their sons play under them largely as walk ons. The list includes Bill Self, Bob Knight, Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun, Lute Olson (grandchildren), Nolan Richardson (son on staff), and John Calipari just to name a few. Bottom line is that whether the practice is full blown nepotism or not, this isn't an issue unique to Hopkins like you're making it out to be.
I spent literally 10 seconds looking up the term "rat ball" and the definition from the Urban Dictionary. You're more than welcome to spin that into more than it is and thank you for your research.
Here's the fundamental problem though with what you're saying and why there is an issue ... let's say that someone goes and watches an AAU game that is full of selfish play, a lack of defense, poor shot selection, and just frankly is sloppy and painful to watch. You can pick your favorite way to describe the play whether it is "rat ball" or in a more detailed manner like I did above in terms of what specifically was hard to watch. And moreover, let's say that that opinion came from a non person of color. However, let's say that this particular AAU game was primarily a game involving people of color. I'm not trying to over simplify, but this is effectively what you've been referencing is this situation - is that fair?
The underlying challenge in this, and I say this as inquisitively as possible, is how can people have a conversation on a topic like this without race entering the picture if, as in this example, you have consistently shifted arguments to including race as part of the discussion? Moreover, you're equating someone saying that they don't see or evaluate based on color (focusing instead on merit) as a means of being colorblind and therefore not caring about race. That's a giant leap where you're making very blind assertions about people. On top of that, you're equating MAGA, and therefore large portions of the country (all you have to do is look at a district by district map of the US to illustrate this) that vote Republican are racists. Again, that's a complete and total leap and jumping to conclusions. At minimum, we know that absolutes are almost never accurate.
I will agree with you on this though ... stereotypes and divisions have been part of this country's history from the beginning and what exactly has the benefit of those divisions been? It's why I referenced the Cross Colours shirt because that was in place as I was growing up and it sure seemed growing up that we could move forward in a way where we celebrated our differences and moved together as a collective group. Somewhere along the way that has changed and as a society we're so willing to accentuate the divisions, cancel those that don't agree with us, and look for excuses instead of ways to get better. There's always greater strength that comes from building people up and enabling success than what comes by tearing people down.
You can choose to not take me at my word, but I want EVERYBODY to have an EQUAL opportunity to be successful. Life doesn't have to be a zero sum game. The success of one doesn't have to come at the expense of another. If I've learned anything in life, what I've learned is that we are at our best when we have peers pushing us to be the best that we can be.
You guys are seriously talking about women's hoops, and seem to actually care? Take a long walk for some perspective, my dudes.
GreenRiverGatorz
New Fish
I'll gleefully tell you to shut the fuck up in any setting. If that makes me a #profileincourage then give me the damn medal.
1to392831weretaken
New Fish
I want to be a uniter, not a divider, so I think we should all agree that I'm the internet toughest, and you guys can sort out the order below that if you so choose. YWFMS.
Miley_Cyrus
New Fish
Mods?
I like this guy. Built SDSU from a good D2 program to a good D1 program. Took over a down trending Wright State program and flipped them right around winning 20+ a year in his four years. What about Craig Smith at Utah State? Won at NAIA level, South Dakota and Utah State. Utah State historically has won consistently in the Big West and WAC but were a middle road team in the MW until Smith came in. He makes roughly $700,000 a year. If the $3M buyout of Hopkins is legit you could double Smiths salary and still pay back the buyout in two years with the money you would save relative to what Hopkins makes yearly. I like that Decuire is local but Wayne Tinkle won more at Montana than TD and he has been average at best at OSU. Montana is one of the best jobs in the Big Sky. Most decent coaches should win there. Leon Rice? I don't know, he wins in Boise. Christ, that can't be easy. I feel UW needs to get a guy who has won games consistently in his career. Romar, love him or hate him, had a history of winning at both Pepperdine and Saint Louis. He wasn't dominant at either but he did win. I respect your opinions @huskyhooligan. What say you?
IceManLikeGervin
New Fish
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Prestonluv
New Fish
The sure sign of excellence is when you shoot a horrible 51% from field, a putrid 43% from three, have an inexcusable 11 turnovers, allow the opponent to shoot an en fuego 41% and still manage to lose the game.
We have a lot to look forward too
We have a lot to look forward too
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R
Like we say, no.
Like we say, no.