Can Washington compete nationally without 5 Star recruits?
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
DodgyBloke
New Fish
with a full roster of high rated 4 stars sure
WilburHooksHands
New Fish
No
Was Stan Emptemann a 5 star? That's what I thought
Although the 91 champs did have the highest ranked classes in school history. Funny how that works
We actually are in the midst of the next great bumper crop
Every 30 years UW wins a natty. Allegedly
Although the 91 champs did have the highest ranked classes in school history. Funny how that works
We actually are in the midst of the next great bumper crop
Every 30 years UW wins a natty. Allegedly
The '88 class, which built much of that NC team, was actually considered mediocre, as I recall
I don't recall that but the 89 class was nails
I thought 88 was too
The answer is yes, quite easily. With a lot of 4*, good scouting and development, it's not that unusual to get 5* performance out of 4* and a few 3* guys.
UW has done it as recently as three seasons ago. It wasnt overperforming 3* guys coming back down to earth against elite competition that derailed that team. Guys like King, Jones, Gaines, Vea, Pettis, and Gaskin held up fine. It was a couple of key injuries to a thin roster and a lack depth players with 4* physical characteristics surrounding the elite guys (most of whom had been 3* recruits). Plus a weak OL and QB.
UW has done it as recently as three seasons ago. It wasnt overperforming 3* guys coming back down to earth against elite competition that derailed that team. Guys like King, Jones, Gaines, Vea, Pettis, and Gaskin held up fine. It was a couple of key injuries to a thin roster and a lack depth players with 4* physical characteristics surrounding the elite guys (most of whom had been 3* recruits). Plus a weak OL and QB.
As I recall, the big get in '88 was Mike Lustyk. Stan Empermananann was a two star
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(Hoffmann told me that the players referred to Emtman as "Empo")
TOP DAWGS
A look the Huskies’ best recruiting classes of the past 30 years:
1988: Best of the best: Steve Emtman, Lincoln Kennedy, Mark Brunell, Mario Bailey, Dave Hoffmann and Jay Barry, to name a few, helped pave the way for the most dominant period in program history.
That's a great class
Hoff is going to get you
A look the Huskies’ best recruiting classes of the past 30 years:
1988: Best of the best: Steve Emtman, Lincoln Kennedy, Mark Brunell, Mario Bailey, Dave Hoffmann and Jay Barry, to name a few, helped pave the way for the most dominant period in program history.
That's a great class
Hoff is going to get you
Bonedog
New Fish
If Pete would have had his best Boise State team at UW, sprinkled with guys like John Ross, Budda, Vea, etc we would have won a title.
Yes stars matter, but this board gets too caught up in the four star guys. If those guys play up to their rankings, they would be late round NFL draft picks. We feel good about beating out Oregon, UCLA, and even USC, but some of those guys suck.
An example is Wattenberg. He was a low four star recruit that if he played to his exact ranking would be a 7th round pick. To almost everyone, he’s a disappointment, but he’s really close to the level he was rated as on 247, but we see the four stars and expect more.
We got worse at evaluating as time went on because we could get the good, but not elite four star recruits. The team now has better depth, but is not as talented as 2016. Our talent has decreased slightly despite higher ranked classes.
UW needs to always keep elite in state guys, have a great QB, and evaluate well. After the elite guys, you need to pick and get the others.
This post is scattered, but there is more nuance to simply thinking stars matter because the teams that win natties have the highest ranked classes.
Yes stars matter, but this board gets too caught up in the four star guys. If those guys play up to their rankings, they would be late round NFL draft picks. We feel good about beating out Oregon, UCLA, and even USC, but some of those guys suck.
An example is Wattenberg. He was a low four star recruit that if he played to his exact ranking would be a 7th round pick. To almost everyone, he’s a disappointment, but he’s really close to the level he was rated as on 247, but we see the four stars and expect more.
We got worse at evaluating as time went on because we could get the good, but not elite four star recruits. The team now has better depth, but is not as talented as 2016. Our talent has decreased slightly despite higher ranked classes.
UW needs to always keep elite in state guys, have a great QB, and evaluate well. After the elite guys, you need to pick and get the others.
This post is scattered, but there is more nuance to simply thinking stars matter because the teams that win natties have the highest ranked classes.
Yes, but it sure helps.
NEsnake12
New Fish
Love this take. 254 players got drafted to the NFL last year, and Watty was rated 295th in the composite. The natural equilibrium would expect him to go undrafted. Now consider that the vast majority of the players drafted were not 4 and 5 star recruits either (15/32 first round picks in 2019 were 3 stars or lower).
The elite recruiting prospects are hard to get for a reason, they pan out much more often than lesser recruited guys. It's important we get as many if them as possible. But the difference between being USC/Tennessee/Texas and actually competing for a Natty is how well you evaluate and develop the back half of your recruiting class with guys that not every school wants.
Bearswiin told me it was nothing special
This argument can drive me bat shit crazy at times because people will say "STARS DON'T MATTER!!! STAN EMPO!!!!" The reason the vast majority of drafted players are 3 star or less is because there are a shit ton more of them.
If we go by the legend of the 86 Sun Bowl being the wake up call for James and recruiting then the Feb 87 class was almost in the barn so the 88 class was the first test case
The instructions from James were for the assistants to get off their ass and verify everything that was said about a recruit including holding the stop watch. He was tired of fast guys that were slow and Bama really torched us with 80's SEC SPEED
If you look at that 88 class you can see the beauty of rankings and getting there in person to verify. Mario Baily was small, Stan was underrated. Kennedy was highly rated. The point is that the 88 - 90 classes were loaded with FOOTBALL PLAYERS who were mean and nasty and wanted to win
The 92 class look great on paper but ended up sucking
Its not an exact science by any means. Maybe we have a bad batch of chips. Maybe the coaches need to work harder on evaluation. We need football players not underwear models.
Everything matters
@Dennis_DeYoung @CokeGreaterThanPepsi
The instructions from James were for the assistants to get off their ass and verify everything that was said about a recruit including holding the stop watch. He was tired of fast guys that were slow and Bama really torched us with 80's SEC SPEED
If you look at that 88 class you can see the beauty of rankings and getting there in person to verify. Mario Baily was small, Stan was underrated. Kennedy was highly rated. The point is that the 88 - 90 classes were loaded with FOOTBALL PLAYERS who were mean and nasty and wanted to win
The 92 class look great on paper but ended up sucking
Its not an exact science by any means. Maybe we have a bad batch of chips. Maybe the coaches need to work harder on evaluation. We need football players not underwear models.
Everything matters
@Dennis_DeYoung @CokeGreaterThanPepsi
Exactly and that is where we have done a worse job the past few years. We took less “risks” on paper but have not had as many gems in the back half. I think part of it is because Pete subconsciously did care about stars and you feel better about a guy when you beat out other big schools than getting a guy with only a couple of other offers.
I get that the teams with the highest ranked classes win natties, but recruiting for fit is important. Chip at Oregon wasn’t getting good, but not top ranked classes, but was winning the conference almost every year because he recruited guys that fit what he wanted to do. We don’t do that at all because we didn’t have a offensive system under Pete.
GreenRiverGatorz
New Fish
I think @NEsnake12 knows that, given the context of the rest of his post. The larger point is that plenty of 4 and 5 star guys still bust, highlighting the need to stockpile as many of them as you can to outlast the law of averages.