America's greatest MUST WIN military victory of all time?

[digits]

Battle of the Little Bighorn - 1876[/b]

On June 25, 1876, while leading the 7th Cavalry Regiment at the Battle of the Little Bighorn in Montana Territory against a coalition of Native American tribes, George Armstrong Custer was killed along with over one third of his command during an action later romanticized as "Custer's Last Stand".[/i] - Wiki

 

[RaceBannon]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

 

[1to392831weretaken]

I'm not going to be able to confidently vote in this poll until I research the quality/quantity of victory coitus for each battle.

 

[LebamDawg]

Yorktown was the end of the brits - we Corn-holed-wallis and that was the end. The best is always the last - the only one that really counts.

And the French have been making us pay since - Rochambeau influencing Washington, Lafayette, de Grasse (this was before he got into space shit) on water. The brits didn't stand a chance.

 

[LebamDawg]

as far as the civil war and WWI, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Spanish American, all the Middle East wars - jeez have we been in enough? - we would just be more divided than we are having won most of them. I think if we were invaded eventually all the ferners would just give up and leave.

 

[ThomasFremont]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

What if I told you our casualties taking the Japanese home islands would have far exceeded 80k?

Plus obviously a ton of Japanese dead as well, like way more than 80k depending on how strong the civilian population was urged to resist by their god-emperor.

 

[RaceBannon]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

What if I told you our casualties taking the Japanese home islands would have far exceeded 80k?

Plus obviously a ton of Japanese dead as well, like way more than 80k depending on how strong the civilian population was urged to resist by their god-emperor.

First grade stuff man

We got taught history in my day

But I'm woke now

You're getting whooshed

 

[ThomasFremont]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

What if I told you our casualties taking the Japanese home islands would have far exceeded 80k?

Plus obviously a ton of Japanese dead as well, like way more than 80k depending on how strong the civilian population was urged to resist by their god-emperor.

First grade stuff man

We got taught history in my day

But I'm woke now

You're getting whooshed

I thought I was playing along. But ok.

 

[RaceBannon]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

What if I told you our casualties taking the Japanese home islands would have far exceeded 80k?

Plus obviously a ton of Japanese dead as well, like way more than 80k depending on how strong the civilian population was urged to resist by their god-emperor.

First grade stuff man

We got taught history in my day

But I'm woke now

You're getting whooshed

I thought I was playing along. But ok.

It's hard

To tell sometimes

 

[ThomasFremont]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

What if I told you our casualties taking the Japanese home islands would have far exceeded 80k?

Plus obviously a ton of Japanese dead as well, like way more than 80k depending on how strong the civilian population was urged to resist by their god-emperor.

First grade stuff man

We got taught history in my day

But I'm woke now

You're getting whooshed

I thought I was playing along. But ok.

It's hard

To tell sometimes

Has my pedigree as a history knob fallen so far?

SAD...

 

[PurpleThrobber]

Yep the bomb was just more efficient and risked less lives to wipe out 80,000 people

WW2 was brutal

Better 80k of theirs than 1 of ours.

War is hell.

That's last century thinking

We deserve to die

Just the white guys.

Not like the windtalkers and soldiers whose parents are in ICE detention centers[/s] internment camps.

 

[BearsWiin]

Several on that list don't even deserve consideration. Vicksburg was big for a western theater battle, and very strategeric, but the war was going to be won back east. Atlanta? Christ. Baltimore? WTF? Even Gettysburg could have been a Union loss and still forced Lee to retreat because he wouldn't continue to have the manpower or logistical support to sustain an invasion. The argument for Antietam is stronger than any other Civil War battle, IMO.

I've made the poont many times that Midway was the most decisive 15 minutes in US military history, and that Normandy was a fucking overrated (thanks a fucking lot, Hanks and Spielberg) afterthought given what the Sovs were doing on the Eastern Front. But, really, none of those battles would have been fought had we? not turned the tide in the RevWar. Trenton was a feel-good sideshow, Yorktown was mop-up duty. Saratoga was the must-win, the tide-turner.

There are actually some interesting recent counterfactual books asking the querey of what would we be like had the British won the RevWar. Had we? lost, slavery probably have been abolished by the British 20 years later, no weird jingoist Manifest Destiny messianic mentality would have ingrained itself in the American collective consciousness, and we? likely would have gained independence like Canada did, later in the 19th century. A kinder, gentler version of ourselves, probably with universal health care instead of the prosperity gospel anti-brown 2A bullshit we have now

Hi Race!

 

[ThomasFremont]

Wow. I’ve never rooted against the US in the Revolutionary War before. Until now...

 

[RaceBannon]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

 

[BearsWiin]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world wars

 

[BearsWiin]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/we-could-have-been-canada

Race has done it again!

 

[ThomasFremont]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world wars

Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!

 

[Swaye]

If the Allies take a loss at Normandy, fortress Europe holds and we enter a stalemate. The 101st and 82nd Airborne would be stranded behind enemy lines with no hope of resupply. At the very least many more casualties in follow up landing attempts. Nazis don’t get pressured on multiple fronts. A lot of things have to go right to end up with the same outcome. Not a lot of things have to happen for Hitler and Nazi Germany to remain a military power.

The Soviets would have still ended up in Berlin even if Overlord failed. Probably not by April 1945 but it was still going to happen. Consider that 90% of all Whermacht casualties in the war were inflicted by the Soviets. The importance of Normandy was that it enabled us to keep much of Europe out of the Soviet sphere.

I don’t know. A massive defeat at Normandy might have totally stalled the Allies. Second guessing is a bitch. Just look at Africa and Italy.

Meanwhile, the Nazis would have been riding high, had more time and resources to devote to the East.

Let’s say the Soviets roll them anyways (most likely)...if we aren’t meeting them in Berlin, do they stop? I doubt it. Now we are maybe meeting them in Paris? Do we stalemate or do we fight them now that they’ve violated our alliance by invading France (under the pretense of wiping out remaining Nazi units/leaders)? Either way, seems much worse than the way it played out.

We can agree getting thwarted on the beaches of Normandy would have been a disaster. It's difficult to say how far the Soviets would have advanced. We had some leverage in the sense that they were still receiving massive lend lease aid from us. We know the bomb was ready by Aug 1945. Might Germany have received it first?

My woke history taught me that the bomb was reserved for the yellow folks not the white folks

Probably because the Japs bombed us and we were still really pissed off

Or racist

They are full of shit. We would have used it on Germany if needed. We? had not qualms about BBQ ing kraut civilians. In fact, the fire bombing of Dresden occurred well before LeMay started fire bombing Japan's cities.

If you are going to go to war, it should be total war. Otherwise stay home and don't fight in the first place.

 

[PurpleThrobber]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world wars

Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!

Oktober could have been special.

 

[ThomasFremont]

England would be speaking German

Gee we could be Canada!!!!!!

Canada stood with England from the beginning of both world wars

Yeah but Hitler had some good ideas too!

View attachment 23256

Oktober could have been special.

Das es verboten!!1!