9 Black People Gunned Down at Bible Study, Obvious Hate Crime

[allpurpleallgold]

I won

Have you ever lost?

MelloDawg took him to school once.

 

[TierbsHsotBoobs]

Counterpoint:

Isle Gun Death Rate Lowest In U.S.

Not having black people or Southern white rednecks helps

 

[HuskyInAZ]

Swapping out black and messicans for orientals......that's not fair. I hear the orientals prefer nunchucks and swords, which is cheating, as there is no impact on gun violence.

 

[dnc]

I won

Have you ever lost?

MelloDawg took him to school once.

View attachment 9364

 

[AZDuck]

Counterpoint:

Isle Gun Death Rate Lowest In U.S.

Not having black people or Southern white rednecks helps

This is kind of racist in a new way and I feel tingly all over

 

[RoadDawg55]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

 

[Kaepsknee]

The people arguing for guns always remind me of religious people. It's funny how all arguments sound the same when you've made up your mind first and come up with the argument second.

Just admit you love guns and that's all that matters.

I'm all for a more comprehensive records check in firearm sales. However the gaping hole that exists there is HIIPA privacy laws. You can't access history of mental illness with a pre-sale records check. If you're a felon you won't get a firearm legally. It's been that way since way before Puppy was goin all discipline hole even. But you can't check med records including history of mental illness with a records check. It's the nutjobs that are doin this shit. At least the big ones. And the HIIPA laws aren't going anywhere.

Background checks seem like a logical answer to helping to keep firearms out of the wrong peoples hand. But given the above and the black market. Crazy mutha fuckahs will get their hands on a piece if they really want one.

 

[Kaepsknee]

The people arguing for guns always remind me of religious people. It's funny how all arguments sound the same when you've made up your mind first and come up with the argument second.

Just admit you love guns and that's all that matters.

I like guns just fine. Use them to shoot deer every season since I was a boy with both Dads in a blind. But, this has much less to do with "loving" guns, and much more to do with believing in liberty, and the governments desire to restrict my ability to protect myself from that same government.

It always amuses me that when you tell people (liberals mostly) you want guns to potentially defend yourself from jack booted government thugs, they look at you like you have two heads and are some kind of crazy domestic terrorist. Um, that is precisely what most of the guys on those bills we don't use anymore did. The redcoats were the ATF/FBI/whatever of their day. When what we now call patriots took up arms against them, because of a fundamental belief in liberty and self governance, they were committing domestic terrorism. Thank God they got to that arsenal in Lexington before the redcoats, or the revolution would have been over before it started. The limeys realized, correctly, they better steal the weapons first. The patriots realized, correctly, the only way to defend yourself in any meaningful way was to have them.

Do I think any of this happens in my lifetime? No, at least I certainly hope not. But, I believe in gun rights because I have no idea what might happen in a hundred years, and I want your great grandkids and any of my illegitimate grandkids to at least have to means to defend themselves and liberty from an overzealous government, or a common intruder, or a fucking Skynet activated robot army. Also, venison tastes good and everyone should shoot a deer and figure this out at least once in their life.

While this sounds nice, the Revolution wasn't won because we got to the guns at Lexington or Ticonderoga (sure it helped). It was won because of the Atlantic Ocean, time, attrition, the sagging economy of a war weary England, and the French.

But if you want to oversimplify a major historical event into a single issue, that's your right!

England just needed more time

 

[topdawgnc]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

 

[allpurpleallgold]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

It's a solid post but I'd stay away from that healthcare argument. I can think of a group that's just over 10% of the population that's had a lot of laws rewritten for them.

 

[TierbsHsotBoobs]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

It's a solid post but I'd stay away from that healthcare argument. I can think of a group that's just over 10% of the population that's had a lot of laws rewritten for them.

I specifically said no racist crap.

 

[OZONE]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

Okay... so only 11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year... thus you argue it isn't worth doing anything about.

Well... only 2,996 people died from the terrorist act on 9/11. Should we also have done nothing about that?

 

[AZDuck]

Crazy with a knife doesn't kill 9 people

US firearm murder rate is among the highest (if not the highest) in the developed world

Cars used be more dangerous, and we identified that as a problem and created safety standards which have made them much safer (although thousands die in cars every year too)

 

[Fire_Marshall_Bill]

The vehicle argument is kind of ridiculous. Accidents happen...accidents. There are tens of millions of cars and trucks on the road. It's impossible to avoid. As far as the gun problem? we're talking about violent criminals, psychos, and the mentally ill as the biggest problems. Figure out reasonable solutions. I'm not for a wholesale ban on all guns, but like el pato Arizona said, we're by far the worst in gun violence in the industrialized world.

 

[CuntWaffle]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

Okay... so only 11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year... thus you argue it isn't worth doing anything about.

Well... only 2,996 people died from the terrorist act on 9/11. Should we also have done nothing about that?

Fucking crazy amounts of pressing

 

[OZONE]

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

Okay... so only 11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year... thus you argue it isn't worth doing anything about.

Well... only 2,996 people died from the terrorist act on 9/11. Should we also have done nothing about that?

Fucking crazy amounts of pressing

Over your head =/= pressing

 

[RoadDawg55]

You can use nothing but facts to

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

I never said I thought the gun laws would directly affect me. It's a problem that criminals and mentally ill fucks can legally obtain a gun so easily. I'm not sure how someone can disagree with that, but they do. Any 18 year old idiot without a felony can legally buy a shotgun. Any 21 year old without a felony can get a handgun. There are no mental evaluations required.

Please answer these questions.

Why do guns sold privately not have to go through the same procedures and regulations as those bought at a sporting goods store?

Since there is only a .0008% chance of gun laws failing means everything is fine? What would my chance be of a fatal car crash with a .15 BAC?

What is so bad about more thorough criminal background and mental health evaluations when purchasing a gun?

It's about making it tougher on criminals and the mentally unstable. It's not about ruining it for responsible gun owners.

 

[topdawgnc]

You can use nothing but facts to

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

I never said I thought the gun laws would directly affect me. It's a problem that criminals and mentally ill fucks can legally obtain a gun so easily. I'm not sure how someone can disagree with that, but they do. Any 18 year old idiot without a felony can legally buy a shotgun. Any 21 year old without a felony can get a handgun. There are no mental evaluations required.

Please answer these questions.

Why do guns sold privately not have to go through the same procedures and regulations as those bought at a sporting goods store?

Since there is only a .0008% chance of gun laws failing means everything is fine? What would my chance be of a fatal car crash with a .15 BAC?

What is so bad about more thorough criminal background and mental health evaluations when purchasing a gun?

It's about making it tougher on criminals and the mentally unstable. It's not about ruining it for responsible gun owners.

You're making an irrational argument.

Once you hit .008%, which is a very generous percentage ... since I used just 15 million citizens in a country with a population of 300 million ... you're at zero.

The FBI reports there were 5.3 million crimes where a gun was visually present.

On the flip side, just shy of 1 million people report using a guy for self defense.

Every other comparable statistic ... BAC, 9/11 ... are straw man arguments.

I ask this, how do you know when a gun is sold privately? You can't regulate everything. You want to regulate a problem that statistically is zero. How do you get it better? Do you naively believe we can get to zero?

As a comparable state ... 8,000 people died from heroin overdose, another 7,000 died from cocaine. I do believe, those two items are more tightly regulated than guns.

Regulation doesn't stop crazy. In the case of the asshole in this thread, if he didn't have a gun he'd use a pipe bomb ... or a pressure cooker.

 

[RoadDawg55]

You can use nothing but facts to

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

I never said I thought the gun laws would directly affect me. It's a problem that criminals and mentally ill fucks can legally obtain a gun so easily. I'm not sure how someone can disagree with that, but they do. Any 18 year old idiot without a felony can legally buy a shotgun. Any 21 year old without a felony can get a handgun. There are no mental evaluations required.

Please answer these questions.

Why do guns sold privately not have to go through the same procedures and regulations as those bought at a sporting goods store?

Since there is only a .0008% chance of gun laws failing means everything is fine? What would my chance be of a fatal car crash with a .15 BAC?

What is so bad about more thorough criminal background and mental health evaluations when purchasing a gun?

It's about making it tougher on criminals and the mentally unstable. It's not about ruining it for responsible gun owners.

You're making an irrational argument.

Once you hit .008%, which is a very generous percentage ... since I used just 15 million citizens in a country with a population of 300 million ... you're at zero.

I don't entirely disagree, but using every adult is kind of retarded considering the majority of adults don't have guns. I know you are using ballpark numbers, but they are still very flawed.

The FBI reports there were 5.3 million crimes where a gun was visually present.

On the flip side, just shy of 1 million people report using a guy for self defense.

Every other comparable statistic ... BAC, 9/11 ... are straw man arguments.

Any argument that points out that there are laws created for unlikely events are straw man arguments? They aren't to be taken literally, but rather to show that small percentages do not always equal everything being fine.

I ask this, how do you know when a gun is sold privately? You can't regulate everything. You want to regulate a problem that statistically is zero. How do you get it better? Do you naively believe we can get to zero?

It's not statistically a zero. I'm not a law maker. To me, these arguments are similar to "We shouldn't fire Sark because who would you hire?" There are tons of way to make it tougher to sell a gun to a whacko. Do you naively believe that the gun laws couldn't possibly be more effective? Or do you believe that since you and others you know use guns responsibly means that things are perfectly fine?

As a comparable state ... 8,000 people died from heroin overdose, another 7,000 died from cocaine. I do believe, those two items are more tightly regulated than guns.

According to you, those are straw man arguments.

Regulation doesn't stop crazy. In the case of the asshole in this thread, if he didn't have a gun he'd use a pipe bomb ... or a pressure cooker.

You are correct. Regulation does not stop crazy. I still don't understand how making gun laws stricter would make things worse? I'm pretty sure certain it is harder to make an effective pipe bomb than pull a trigger.

Toppy, I know that you and others on this board love your guns, use them responsibly, and are not the problem. Unfortunately, that isn't the case with everyone in this country. I still am not sure why stricter regulations would be such a bad thing? I don't believe it's irrational to try and take steps to prevent these tragedies from happening as often as they do.

 

[topdawgnc]

You can use nothing but facts to

Guns aren't hard to get. Pretty much anyone without a criminal background can go buy one. A buddy of mine at the time got a Mosberg shotgun right after he turned 18. There are plenty of psycho's that don't have criminal records barring them from getting guns in their late teens and early 20's. Criminals can buy them at private trade shows in 40 states with no required background checks. You gun nuts must enjoy having your head in the sand.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/

I enjoy shooting guns. When I was in college, we would go up in the mountains and set up empty liquor bottles to shoot. AR-15's, AK47's, 1911's. Shooting shit is fun. But the gun laws in this country are not working.

What's not working?

Crimes involving firearms make up 8% of all violent incidents (Bureau of Justice).

We have a scenario where a fucking crazy shoots up 9 innocent people, can you say the knife laws of China aren't working because some crazy sliced up a crowd?

Here's another stat:

11,000 people were murdered by a gun last year. If we cut the American population to represent just the adult population (approximately 15,000,000)... you have a .0008% chance of the gun laws failing you.

Wanting to rewrite the gun laws over the media hyperbole ... is like wanting to rewrite the health care laws because 10% of American's are not covered.

The facts don't back up anyone's anti-gun argument.

This entire thread is about emotion.

It's right where Obama want's us to be ... arguing irrationally on emotion.

I never said I thought the gun laws would directly affect me. It's a problem that criminals and mentally ill fucks can legally obtain a gun so easily. I'm not sure how someone can disagree with that, but they do. Any 18 year old idiot without a felony can legally buy a shotgun. Any 21 year old without a felony can get a handgun. There are no mental evaluations required.

Please answer these questions.

Why do guns sold privately not have to go through the same procedures and regulations as those bought at a sporting goods store?

Since there is only a .0008% chance of gun laws failing means everything is fine? What would my chance be of a fatal car crash with a .15 BAC?

What is so bad about more thorough criminal background and mental health evaluations when purchasing a gun?

It's about making it tougher on criminals and the mentally unstable. It's not about ruining it for responsible gun owners.

You're making an irrational argument.

Once you hit .008%, which is a very generous percentage ... since I used just 15 million citizens in a country with a population of 300 million ... you're at zero.

I don't entirely disagree, but using every adult is kind of retarded considering the majority of adults don't have guns. I know you are using ballpark numbers, but they are still very flawed.

The FBI reports there were 5.3 million crimes where a gun was visually present.

On the flip side, just shy of 1 million people report using a guy for self defense.

Every other comparable statistic ... BAC, 9/11 ... are straw man arguments.

Any argument that points out that there are laws created for unlikely events are straw man arguments? They aren't to be taken literally, but rather to show that small percentages do not always equal everything being fine.

I ask this, how do you know when a gun is sold privately? You can't regulate everything. You want to regulate a problem that statistically is zero. How do you get it better? Do you naively believe we can get to zero?

It's not statistically a zero. I'm not a law maker. To me, these arguments are similar to "We shouldn't fire Sark because who would you hire?" There are tons of way to make it tougher to sell a gun to a whacko. Do you naively believe that the gun laws couldn't possibly be more effective? Or do you believe that since you and others you know use guns responsibly means that things are perfectly fine?

As a comparable state ... 8,000 people died from heroin overdose, another 7,000 died from cocaine. I do believe, those two items are more tightly regulated than guns.

According to you, those are straw man arguments.

Regulation doesn't stop crazy. In the case of the asshole in this thread, if he didn't have a gun he'd use a pipe bomb ... or a pressure cooker.

You are correct. Regulation does not stop crazy. I still don't understand how making gun laws stricter would make things worse? I'm pretty sure certain it is harder to make an effective pipe bomb than pull a trigger.

Toppy, I know that you and others on this board love your guns, use them responsibly, and are not the problem. Unfortunately, that isn't the case with everyone in this country. I still am not sure why stricter regulations would be such a bad thing? I don't believe it's irrational to try and take steps to prevent these tragedies from happening as often as they do.

I don't own a gun, have never fired a gun ... and have zero desire to learn to shoot. It is the regulation for hysteria I am against.

The drugs are a very real parallel.

Drugs are regulated. Yet more people die from those regulated, hard to get items than guns.

This dude the other day was going to kill black people. He as a sick mother fucker, no gun law would have stopped what happened.

What's your end goal? To make it harder for a whacko to buy a legal gun. That is an admirable goal. Does that mean every person who buys a gun has to be psychologically evaluated? That would require the federal government monitor an estimated 30% of the population who legally own guns.

Nine people were killed by guns, it is a fucking tragedy ... I feel awful for their families. This kid robbed them of a future. Tighter regulations would not have stopped him.