Talent Wins: The formula for winning championships isn’t complicated
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
Thanks Taft!
creepycoug
Well-known poster
I remember when this board was a big believer in Five Stars.
I’m a 5 star thanked of Taft.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
You are also an elite consumer of nachos.
That’s true.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
It's actually an interesting question or point to discuss. Saban was not Saban at Michigan State. And, no, I don't think he became a more brilliant coach somehow between then and LSU. At LSU, he had access to a different recruiting base than he did at State. Sure, he's a great coach. But is he some brilliant Xs and Os guy? His assistant coaching / coordinator position is a revolving door, with retards like Sark, Tosh, Kiffin taking a turn. Doens't seem to matter who's there does it?
I mean, please tell me how he's taking lower rated recruits and developing them. Come on. That is not what's happening at Georgia and Bama.
I mean, please tell me how he's taking lower rated recruits and developing them. Come on. That is not what's happening at Georgia and Bama.
rodmansrage
New Fish
Stacking elite (not good, not great, but elite) high school recruiting classes is the most important factor when it comes to competing for championships and establishing a championship program.[/i]
jimbo fisher is scratching his head at this.
jimbo fisher is scratching his head at this.
So why was Richt mediocre and Kirby wins back to back natties?
How does Jimbo just have one ring with all the talent he has had at two schools
Its not one or the other. Its both
James was pretty good with third pick after USC and UCLA
He was great with the super recruiting that built the 90-92 teams
How does Jimbo just have one ring with all the talent he has had at two schools
Its not one or the other. Its both
James was pretty good with third pick after USC and UCLA
He was great with the super recruiting that built the 90-92 teams
I didn't say he's taking lower rated recruits. At least not now.
But these kids are essentially being partitioned into 3 tiers. That's FS. It gets even more complicated now with transfer rules. It's FS to be A&M fan and think you're just going to be elite. Texas just looks at stars and measurables and has cycled through 3 staffs now.
Coaching and evaluation matter more than they ever have.
How Utah has been to two rose bowls. How Oregon State just runs 15 straights runs and then destroys Florida.
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creepycoug
Well-known poster
I agree. I know you need coaching. My point is that the narrative to date, which seems to hold, is that a condition precedent to winning natties is a bevy of 4 stars and a sprinkling of 5 stars. You also need coaching, but that narrative has been coaching alone, with a bevy of 3 stars, won't get you over the Georgia/Bama hump.
I didn't write the narrative. This place did.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Yes, this is what I posted to haie. Both. Not one, or [/i]the other. At least that's what I've been made to believe around here for years. And the TV doesn't lie either.
And in the case of Bama, I really think that if there's a lean one way or the other, it's the talent disparity. Saban runs a great program, obviously, which includes recruiting but also discipline, etc. But I don't think he's some kind of quantum leap-forward genius. Talk about brand, he walked into one of the, if not the, biggest brand in cfb which sits in the middle of the most fertile recruiting region in the country. Not easy, but not uphill either. He's the one who uses the boxing division analogy btw.
Richt was 11-7 in bowls and he was a 10+ win season guy 10 out of 18 seasons as a head coach, with a better winning % than the three guys before him at Georgia, which includes Dooley. I'd give him a mediocre++, or good, but not great, HC, because that win rate gets you lifetime employment at a lot of programs. Georgia fans expected to win titles (at the time on the basis of having done it once in the color TV era) and saw that he wasn't an "over the hump" guy. Two conference titles in 15 years at GA didn't get it done.
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dnc
New Fish
The ten seasons before Saban arrived at Bama
More loosing seasons than 10 win seasons.
Maybe the dudes before Saban were all just shitty recruiters who couldn't capitalize on the brand but that's hard to reconcile with Saban's 12-2 record in year two and 14-0 in year three.
The easier conclusion is that Nick is a far superior coach.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Or a combination. Alabama, I don't think, was producing players then at the clip they've been under Saban. Meyer has been great wherever he's been. Saban was 34-24 at Sparty. Two 5th, two 6th and one tie for 2nd in conference. How'd he get so good at LSU?
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46XiJCAB
New Fish
Saban brought a 6-6 MSU team to Autzen in 98' and got thumped by MB, 48-14. The next year, his last at MSU, he went 10-2. They had not had a winning season since 1990. His 6-6 teams upset #1 tOSU. He can obviously coach but it takes elite level recruiting to win NC's. He's proved it at LSU and Bama.
AtomicDawg
Active poster
There’s like half the schools in the SEC a coach of Saban or Smart’s stature could go into and make a juggernaut in the SEC. LSU, Bama, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, auburn and a&m. They have talent close by and think & care. It’s amazing how bad the AD can mess it up though.
Growing up for me LSU was always a shitty program until Saban was there. They now have 3 coaches that have won natties since I was 21. Tennessee was in the top 10 a lot when I was growing up, they have been an under achieving enigma since the early 2000’s until this year.
TLDR
Certain schools have high levels of potential, only top tier coaches bring it out (and that one time Larry Coker, Ogeron and chizik won it) though.
Growing up for me LSU was always a shitty program until Saban was there. They now have 3 coaches that have won natties since I was 21. Tennessee was in the top 10 a lot when I was growing up, they have been an under achieving enigma since the early 2000’s until this year.
TLDR
Certain schools have high levels of potential, only top tier coaches bring it out (and that one time Larry Coker, Ogeron and chizik won it) though.