Legendary USC safety Polamalu a finalist for Pro Football HOF
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
creepycoug
Well-known poster
First ballot
I think Edge finally gets in. Criminal how long he's had to wait.
I think Edge finally gets in. Criminal how long he's had to wait.
PandaOrangeChiknDuck
New Fish
Troy and Ed Reed were the premier safeties in their time.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Easily.
Sean Taylor would have been in that conversation, too. As much as I love both TP and ER, Taylor was an amazing combination of both. He could play center-field like Reed and enforce the run like Polamalu. The kid was a specimen and had the mind of a killer.
Closet comparison is Kenny Easley, a fucking GOAT if there ever was one. That kind of player.
Taylor was good, but he wasn’t at their level when he was alive. The best night have been Bob Sanders. He was incredibly valuable to the Colts but could never stay healthy.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Yes he absolutely was. I think you're talking out of your ass on this one, and I mean that sincerely. I like most of your takes, but this one it terrible.
Drafted #5, played three full seasons and one partial season. In that time, made 2 Pro Bowls and one First Team All Pro. And, mind you, he was a polarizing player, so he was never voted in on anything based on popularity (which happens).
You probably didn't watch him in college; I did. I also watched Easley and Lott in college, because I'm that old. Taylor was that good, and maybe could have been better. He could run support like Steve Atwater, and cover downfield like Reed. Ergo, Kenny Easley. He scared the shit out of running backs and QBs alike because he could lay the lumber and was an interception machine.
There just haven't been that many who could do both like he could.
6'2", 230 lbs. 100 meter sprint champ in Florida (where that means something) and had hops. He was an incredible athlete, a NASTY fucking hitter and an overall nightmare for opposing teams. He could also return kicks and punts like a boss.
Let me ask you this: how many players do you know who played less than 5 seasons, anywhere, and are in their pro team's Ring of Honor? The Redskins have had a lot of legendary players come through, so they're not short on people to celebrate. And yet they made room for Taylor after only having him play for three seasons.
@whlinder can say more. I'm just shocked at your take here Roadie. Please say something to calm me down.
Last edited:
I've been a Redskins fan since birth and went to games beginning in the 80s. I hate those fuckers now, but you can only truly hate things you loved.
My favorite Redskin player ever is not Darrell Green or Art Monk or Gary Clark or Wilbur Marshall or Mark Rypien or Doug Williams or Champ Bailey or Clinton Portis or Brad Johnson or Lavar Arrington or Chris Samuels or Trent Williams or Marcus Washington or Alvin Walton or Ken Harvey or Deion (lol) or Mark Brunell or Stephen Davis or Dexter Manley or Charles Mann or Chris Cooley or Santana Moss or whoever.
It's Sean Taylor. Easily. By far. I have both his rookie #36 jersey and the Redskins 75th anniversary #21 for him. I will likely never buy another Redskins jersey.
Because he was unlike any other football player I have ever seen. Ed Reed was a big hitter and had great ball skills and instincts. Ronnie Lott was the same. Those guys were not physically in the same league as Sean Taylor. As a rookie wearing #36 he would get mistaken for Arrington wearing #56 as a 250lb LB. Because Sean was that physically imposing. Sean had football instincts while also wanting to blow people up, and the physical ability to do that better than anyone. Speed, quickness, strength, he was next level on all of those. The dude was a monster. MEAST.
Remember Sean was only 24 when he was killed. He was drafted when he was only 21, and was putting everything together that season. That's why he was all-pro that year. His peak form was beyond what Bob Sanders or Polamalu ever did.
My favorite Redskin player ever is not Darrell Green or Art Monk or Gary Clark or Wilbur Marshall or Mark Rypien or Doug Williams or Champ Bailey or Clinton Portis or Brad Johnson or Lavar Arrington or Chris Samuels or Trent Williams or Marcus Washington or Alvin Walton or Ken Harvey or Deion (lol) or Mark Brunell or Stephen Davis or Dexter Manley or Charles Mann or Chris Cooley or Santana Moss or whoever.
It's Sean Taylor. Easily. By far. I have both his rookie #36 jersey and the Redskins 75th anniversary #21 for him. I will likely never buy another Redskins jersey.
Because he was unlike any other football player I have ever seen. Ed Reed was a big hitter and had great ball skills and instincts. Ronnie Lott was the same. Those guys were not physically in the same league as Sean Taylor. As a rookie wearing #36 he would get mistaken for Arrington wearing #56 as a 250lb LB. Because Sean was that physically imposing. Sean had football instincts while also wanting to blow people up, and the physical ability to do that better than anyone. Speed, quickness, strength, he was next level on all of those. The dude was a monster. MEAST.
Remember Sean was only 24 when he was killed. He was drafted when he was only 21, and was putting everything together that season. That's why he was all-pro that year. His peak form was beyond what Bob Sanders or Polamalu ever did.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
BINGO.
I have (figurative) tears in my eyes reading this.
@RoadDawg55 owes us bofe a YUGE apology.
Roadie, you're up.
Interesting Taylor takes
Obviously I've seen countless games and highlights of Ronnie Lott and Ed Reed and they deservedly are top 100 players.
I knew Taylor died to young but frankly wasn't watching the Skins when he died
I do know that @whlinder and creep are saying the same things said when he died. He had to be legit
Obviously I've seen countless games and highlights of Ronnie Lott and Ed Reed and they deservedly are top 100 players.
I knew Taylor died to young but frankly wasn't watching the Skins when he died
I do know that @whlinder and creep are saying the same things said when he died. He had to be legit
Last edited:
creepycoug
Well-known poster
He really was. If you think of the paragon "War Daddy", he was it, and had the body to carry it out too.
There are actually people trying to make his case on the HOF. I doubt that will ever happen ... even Gale Sayers played more than 3 seasons. But that anybody would bother gives you a sense of what he had in front of him. He was basically a faster version of Easley and Lott, both of whom are in my top 5 all-tim fb players ever (I like safeties), and just as mean and vicious on the field.
Like I said, Atwater but deadly defending the passing game as well. 24 fucking years old, and he was defending his family in his home. But, you can't bring a machete to a gun fight, as the Italians would say.
As I’ve said with the Redskins hiring of a coach recently it doesn’t really fucking matter cause they’ve won 1 playoff game under Snyder.
About that 1 playoff game...
The 2005 Redskins didn’t suck and went into the last week of the season At the Eagles needing a win to get to 10-6 and clinch the playoffs. The Eagles had a bad year and McNabb was hurt but they were still 6-9 in last place. I went to the game to see the Skins possibly actually win.
Detmer was the QB and the Skins were up by 4 with 2 mins left. Eagles ball and have to go 80 yards to take the lead. Detmer gets stripped sack and the ball kicks forward to the line of scrimmage. A bunch of fucktards run toward the ball and dive at it but can't get it. Taylor swoops in, from off the TV screen, scoops it up without breaking stride and is gone, leaping into the end zone for fun high into the air.
He was the safety on the play, deep, saw what was happening, got up to the play and cleanly fielded it and was gone while others were screwing off trying to jump on it. Clinches a postseason berth with that play.
The next week, at Tampa, Cadillac Williams fumbles and Marcus Washington picks it up, but then is stripped by an O-lineman. Taylor was playing deep again, came up in run support, smacks a lineman to the ground and is milling around until he sees Washington running. Once he sees the ball is out he hits another gear, grabs the ball bouncing around, stumbles a bit but gets it without losing speed, and houses it. Redskins haven't won a playoff game since.
About that 1 playoff game...
The 2005 Redskins didn’t suck and went into the last week of the season At the Eagles needing a win to get to 10-6 and clinch the playoffs. The Eagles had a bad year and McNabb was hurt but they were still 6-9 in last place. I went to the game to see the Skins possibly actually win.
Detmer was the QB and the Skins were up by 4 with 2 mins left. Eagles ball and have to go 80 yards to take the lead. Detmer gets stripped sack and the ball kicks forward to the line of scrimmage. A bunch of fucktards run toward the ball and dive at it but can't get it. Taylor swoops in, from off the TV screen, scoops it up without breaking stride and is gone, leaping into the end zone for fun high into the air.
He was the safety on the play, deep, saw what was happening, got up to the play and cleanly fielded it and was gone while others were screwing off trying to jump on it. Clinches a postseason berth with that play.
The next week, at Tampa, Cadillac Williams fumbles and Marcus Washington picks it up, but then is stripped by an O-lineman. Taylor was playing deep again, came up in run support, smacks a lineman to the ground and is milling around until he sees Washington running. Once he sees the ball is out he hits another gear, grabs the ball bouncing around, stumbles a bit but gets it without losing speed, and houses it. Redskins haven't won a playoff game since.
I did watch him in college. He was great. I also think his early death pumps him up. How long was he going to be good at his size? They made room for Taylor because of what could have been. Like Biggie, like Tupac, they are remembered for their work but also their early death mystifies them.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
This is an absolute anti-Hurricane take. If he'd been a Husky you'd sing a drastically different tune.
Nobody did anything for him because he died. That's pressing. He was a controversial kid from the second he stepped into the league. Remember the spitting incident? Remember him blowing up the punter in the Pro Bowl? He was a not a bad kid, but he was not a choir boy by any means. And Hurricanes come into League with a bit of a rep as it is. Nobody ever does them any favors and nobody did Taylor any favors. That special treatment is saved for the SC and Notre Dame people, who the broader fan base loves to love. And besides, Jim Morrison, Biggie, Tupac and Cobain were actually very good at what they did, so I'm not sure using those comparisons helps you support the notion that he's not in the conversation with Lott and Easley.
How long was he going to be good at his size? IDFK. How long was Easley good at his size? Six years? That was his career. Taylor played three. I'm guessing he'd have lasted at least another 3. I'll always give Lott credit for longevity, but Lott has a spot in the HOF. Taylor won't. So he's paying the price for not playing a long time. Hard to do when you're dead.
But while he was here he was a fucking force. We're talking about what he did on the field, and there is no disputing that because it's there for you to watch. He hit like a truck, intercepted passes like a lock-down corner and was dangerous as fuck with the ball in his hands. And, as @whlinder said, he was really just getting started.
Again, he was Steve Atwater, but way better because while Atwater was a liability against the pass - an every fucking body knows that - Taylor could have fashioned a HOF career as merely a center fielder. He was a taller, faster and rangier Troy Polamalu.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
This right here is the difference. He could hit like a truck, but other guys hit like a truck. He could defend the pass and ball hawk, but other guys could do that too. He could do both at an elite level, and then there's the part you just talked about ... the uncanny ability to figure out what's going on while everyone else is spazzing out and get there and have the tuffness to truck people and the finesse athleticism and presence of mind to do the small things to make big plays while others are standing around holding their dicks.
He really was a special talent. I fucking loved him at Miami. I've come to conclude that he's probably the greatest Hurricane ever, which is a mouthful. But I've just never seen a guy who could do all that he could, and he just always showed up, especially in big games, and did the kind of shit you just described.
Talk about having a war daddy to go on the road with.
Tupac ... come on Roadie. Do better. Be better.
He was a special talent and was really good. Christ Creep. He wasn’t the only good player and his career was cut short. He did seem to have put it together but he didn’t waltz in and dominate. He’s no goat.
Last edited:
creepycoug
Well-known poster
You seem to be struggling to save your original point by desperate reference to a lot of rhetoric.
Didn't say he was the only good player.
I know his career was cut short. That's kinda one of the main points of the original post.
He had two pro bowls and one all pro selection in a 3+ year career. I'd say it's pretty clear he had it put together. Otherwise, I don't know what "waltz in and dominates" means.
The other main point was that he was the type of player, in that category of dominance and special ability, that resembles other players (who played longer) who are typically viewed as goats. Steve Atwater is about to first ballot himself into the hall, and Taylor was demonstrably better. To say "he was no goat" is like saying, I don't want to participate in this conversation. It's kinda what it's about.
I get it Roadie, an early death means no one sees you age and decline. You're frozen in time forever, no opportunity to fuck something up and instead virtually only positive qualities are remembered. JFK and Bobby Kennedy, Pac and Biggie, Cobain and Morrison.
In sports you get Pre, Tillman, Len Bias, Jose Fernandez and Taylor. There is absolutely a mythical aura around those names. Because they were great and we only got to catch a glimpse.
Taylor's glimpse was the most physically talented back 7 player in memory with instincts. That doesn't mean he showed up with equivalent production to some of the greats. It's a team sport. Ed Reed had Ray Lewis. Sanders and Polamalu had way better teams around them. Taylor went to a shithole franchise. Since 1991 no seasons with more than 10 regular season wins. A bunch of JAGs and above average players on his teams, with a HOF coach trying to will them to be above 500. As I said before, the single season in which the franchise won 10 games plus a playoff game, literally the greatest Redskins season since 1991, he controlled the games.
He's also mythical because he barely ever spoke. No one knew him cause he was such a quiet personality in public.
He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of the physical talent he had which no one had seen before and no one has seen since. He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of where he was going. He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of how he played, the war daddy without gloves and uncovered arms, hitting as hard as possible every single chance. He was made[/i] for the NFL era of big and fast TEs. Thinking about Creepy's comment of Sean being the best Cane ever, I can see that. He was so physically different.
In sports you get Pre, Tillman, Len Bias, Jose Fernandez and Taylor. There is absolutely a mythical aura around those names. Because they were great and we only got to catch a glimpse.
Taylor's glimpse was the most physically talented back 7 player in memory with instincts. That doesn't mean he showed up with equivalent production to some of the greats. It's a team sport. Ed Reed had Ray Lewis. Sanders and Polamalu had way better teams around them. Taylor went to a shithole franchise. Since 1991 no seasons with more than 10 regular season wins. A bunch of JAGs and above average players on his teams, with a HOF coach trying to will them to be above 500. As I said before, the single season in which the franchise won 10 games plus a playoff game, literally the greatest Redskins season since 1991, he controlled the games.
He's also mythical because he barely ever spoke. No one knew him cause he was such a quiet personality in public.
He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of the physical talent he had which no one had seen before and no one has seen since. He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of where he was going. He's SEAN FUCKING TAYLOR because of how he played, the war daddy without gloves and uncovered arms, hitting as hard as possible every single chance. He was made[/i] for the NFL era of big and fast TEs. Thinking about Creepy's comment of Sean being the best Cane ever, I can see that. He was so physically different.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
Great post. I remember thinking at the time he was killed that people would forget how dominant he was because he didn't play long. That was happening to Easley, too, before he was finally inducted into the HOF. Lott gets a lot of extra pub/reinforcement because he played for national darling SC and because he was part of dynastic 49'er teams. Easley didn't have the good fortune to land on that kind of team.
creepycoug
Well-known poster
He played 3.25 seasons, never played in a super bowl, died 12 years ago and played safety for a long-since fallen franchise.
And, yet, you can still buy his jersey.
Be clear @whlinder : Roadie was using 'died young mystique' to support the original "he was good but not that good" bit.
In any event, that line of thought doesn't really work. All the people who took on posthumous mythos were great in life. Shooting stars may burn out quickly, but they're stars to begin with or we're not talking about them at all in the first place.
And, yet, you can still buy his jersey.
Be clear @whlinder : Roadie was using 'died young mystique' to support the original "he was good but not that good" bit.
In any event, that line of thought doesn't really work. All the people who took on posthumous mythos were great in life. Shooting stars may burn out quickly, but they're stars to begin with or we're not talking about them at all in the first place.