must be the worst MLB closer I've ever seen in my adult life. and yet McClendon keeps trotting him out there.
Fernando Rodney
- Thread starter DerekJohnson
- Start date
Why not try one of the other relievers? It can't be any worse.
Wilhelmsen was pretty good a couple years ago. He fell off the next year, but he has to be better than Rodney. Carson Smith is another guy.
TierbsHsotBoobs
New Fish
Updated avatar for perspective.
Tequilla
Active poster
I'm officially now on the bandwagon that TSIO and FUBAR.
At this point, I expect that Lloyd will not finish out the season as he becomes the scapegoat for Jack Z.
The people that criticize Rodney, while they have their reasons (and hard to argue with those reasons), this team is set up with him closing games. If you replace him as closer, there's a decent chance that you end up doing more damage than not. I'm a big believer in having your team slotted to perform specific jobs and having a clear set of expectations for players on what it is that they are being asked to do.
The common perception is that Carson Smith will be the better closer. I don't think that anybody can be a closer. There's as much that is needed to go on between the ears as anything else. But I digress.
Bigger problem with this team is their startling lack of execution. It's miserable.
I give credit to Zunino and Lloyd for showing some fire tonight ... there are a number of players on the roster that are busy collecting their checks and trying to hold onto those jobs instead of actually playing the game and producing.
At this point, I expect that Lloyd will not finish out the season as he becomes the scapegoat for Jack Z.
The people that criticize Rodney, while they have their reasons (and hard to argue with those reasons), this team is set up with him closing games. If you replace him as closer, there's a decent chance that you end up doing more damage than not. I'm a big believer in having your team slotted to perform specific jobs and having a clear set of expectations for players on what it is that they are being asked to do.
The common perception is that Carson Smith will be the better closer. I don't think that anybody can be a closer. There's as much that is needed to go on between the ears as anything else. But I digress.
Bigger problem with this team is their startling lack of execution. It's miserable.
I give credit to Zunino and Lloyd for showing some fire tonight ... there are a number of players on the roster that are busy collecting their checks and trying to hold onto those jobs instead of actually playing the game and producing.
Who will be the Troy Williams of the Mariner bullpen?
downvoted for responding to my own post.
What tells you that Carson Smith can't close? It's not like there isn't pressure in the 7th and 8th inning or coming in with a couple guys on base. And Smith has been a closer in the minors.
TierbsHsotBoobs
New Fish
I'm not surprised that you're surprised.
You don't know the Mariners AT ALL.
HFNY
Well-known poster
Fair point but finding a guy who can pitch the 7th or 8th is easier than finding a trusty closer so why not give Smith the ball in the 9th to shake things up?
Before this last blown save, I wanted to give Rodney a couple of more chances but he's too wild now. He may be overthrowing because his fastball isn't 97 mph anymore so he's putting guys on base due to missing his locations. Heck, he turned 38 in March and he's given up as many HRs this year as he did last year. He's already walked 12 guys in 22.1 IP and he's averaging less than a strike-out per inning for the first time since 2011.
Lastly besides Smith, the M's have RH pitchers like Wilhelmsen and Mark Lowe so one of them could replace Smith if they move him to the closer spot. Maybe Rodney not closing for awhile will resharpen his focus (if he's not generally too old already).
Before this last blown save, I wanted to give Rodney a couple of more chances but he's too wild now. He may be overthrowing because his fastball isn't 97 mph anymore so he's putting guys on base due to missing his locations. Heck, he turned 38 in March and he's given up as many HRs this year as he did last year. He's already walked 12 guys in 22.1 IP and he's averaging less than a strike-out per inning for the first time since 2011.
Lastly besides Smith, the M's have RH pitchers like Wilhelmsen and Mark Lowe so one of them could replace Smith if they move him to the closer spot. Maybe Rodney not closing for awhile will resharpen his focus (if he's not generally too old already).
Tequilla
Active poster
It's probably less that Rodney is overthrowing the ball as it is that his stuff is more hittable and as a result he's nibbling and trying to be too fine because he doesn't trust the results when the ball gets hit.
The way that I look at bullpens is very similar to how Kansas City uses their pen. In an ideal world, you have a closer that pitches the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning. Each has "their" inning and that's just the way it is. The rest of the pen is tied into either piecing together the innings to getting to the "3 closers," filling in when one of them needs an off day, or to eat up innings in a loss.
The problem with the Mariners right now is who do you trust in the pen? I agree that Smith is the most effective guy. Right now you could argue that his greatest value is getting the team out of highly leveraged situations. The Bartender was a former closer and while his ERA looks fine, his WHIP is over 1.6 per inning, which is not indicative of someone I'm willing to trust in late game situations. Farquhar was also a former closer and now look at him.
By my count, there's 4 guys right now in the pen that you can trust (Smith, Furbush, Lowe, and Beimel). In today's game where SP's don't get deep, you can't win consistently with 4 trusted relievers.
The big concern that I have with Smith going to the 9th would be that in so doing, you may strengthen your outcomes if you get to the 9th but do you get to the 9th with the lead less than you currently are? For as bad as Rodney has been, he's 14 of 17 in save opportunities and one of the blown save chances turned into a win anyway. So if you're looking purely at results, Rodney's getting the job done ... just not in a comfortable manner.
The way that I look at bullpens is very similar to how Kansas City uses their pen. In an ideal world, you have a closer that pitches the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning. Each has "their" inning and that's just the way it is. The rest of the pen is tied into either piecing together the innings to getting to the "3 closers," filling in when one of them needs an off day, or to eat up innings in a loss.
The problem with the Mariners right now is who do you trust in the pen? I agree that Smith is the most effective guy. Right now you could argue that his greatest value is getting the team out of highly leveraged situations. The Bartender was a former closer and while his ERA looks fine, his WHIP is over 1.6 per inning, which is not indicative of someone I'm willing to trust in late game situations. Farquhar was also a former closer and now look at him.
By my count, there's 4 guys right now in the pen that you can trust (Smith, Furbush, Lowe, and Beimel). In today's game where SP's don't get deep, you can't win consistently with 4 trusted relievers.
The big concern that I have with Smith going to the 9th would be that in so doing, you may strengthen your outcomes if you get to the 9th but do you get to the 9th with the lead less than you currently are? For as bad as Rodney has been, he's 14 of 17 in save opportunities and one of the blown save chances turned into a win anyway. So if you're looking purely at results, Rodney's getting the job done ... just not in a comfortable manner.
WilburHooksHands
New Fish
Let Smith close, you put your best fucking guy out there. "He's never done it before" is the most FS argument out there. At one point nobody has done it before.
WilburHooksHands
New Fish
But who can we get that's better??
greenblood
New Fish
At this point a 50 something Bobby Ayala is an upgrade.
